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Doggerland, very cool of you to be here answering questions. As you see, there have been some concerns.

 

Most of all I'd like to know if you have a casting company lined up to produce your minis, and in that case which company it is.

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I GOT IT! I got my chargeback. It's not the end of the line for me - I still plan on dogging these guy's footsteps - but it's a real weight off my back as a broke college student to have this refunded

I just confirmed with my credit card that Kickstarter/Amazon/ADW did not dispute the back charge on my $155 pledged to the Ice Age Mammals project within the time provided for a merchant to do so, so

ladystorm has altered the thread.  Pray she does not alter it further.

Hi Trodax

My name is Scott Lantry. You can certainly feel free to call me Scott. I chose "Doggerland" so people knew it was an "Official" answer.

 

We emply a fulltime sculptor who has (without giving away her age, I will be vague) over a decade's worth of experience in casting fine art pieces with silicon moulds. And, we have a spin-casting set-up. 

 

That being said, we are not certain if we want to cast the minis ourselves. We do not want to compete with Privateer or Reaper. We know we are specialized. We know that Ice Age Mammals would sell more in the action figure market than the wargaming market. We are not building a financial plan around big mini profits and agressive takeover of the Pathfinder and Savage World players that will despearately want our products. We are boutique.

 

But, as this is boutique part of our business, and we have a lot of emplyees working full-time that have amazing art backgrounds, there is the issue of controlling quality, and, if some excuse-ridden KS Campaigns are to be believed, post-funding, schedules. As a boutique player, we need our quality to be better than average, better than good-enough.

 

So: we did consult with a few people on TMP. We made our calls based on personal reccomendations. We got quotes and samples. And, we had our employee spincast and run numbers. Honestly. Her work looked as-good or better than what we got from potential vendors.

 

The answer is- if we can not rely on meeting schedules (as a lot of KS people say is an issue), and we can manufacturer the minis in-house, under the guidance of an expert, then we are inclined to keep it in-house.

 

I know this is a board for what you may think is our competition, and, as such, may want to put the fear of God into us for entering this territory, but we have the team, the equipment, the experience in fine art production and we are happy to be very small, niche manufacturers providing minis for our little story and to people that want to collect.

 

If you want to make a suggestion re: a casting company, I will gladly contact anyone. If they can reduce costs, ensure quality, gaurantee schedules and provide the same product that our employees can, I am open. Send them my way :)

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Noone is trying to put the fear of god into up and coming miniature companies. Most of us just helped fund Minxs kickstarter. Our concern merely lies in the ability to fund, legitness of the business, quality of miniatures and ability to complete shipment. Red flags go up for various reasons, we just had a lot of them. It's just unsettling to see contradicting information on a previously canceled kickstarter to a new one then an indigogo for another project. We aren't aiming to see you fail, if anything, when you succeed and provide fantastic miniatures for retail, its just more minis to fuel our addiction.

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Could you tell us what determines whether the minis will be in metal or resin?

If that is still up on the site, that is 100% my fault. 

I think there is nothing hidden about costs here. We are not talking about a lot of cash, either way. The minis are almost a loss-leader for us. Almost, but not quite. There will be no profit, except that it will pay a % of some salaries.

Metal will be heavy for the bigger figures. That was the only determining factor. Not price.

And, if we have a secondary market sale to the action figure/toy world, they prefer resin to metal.

 

Plastics? You have to run a lot to break-even, and I already had army men when I was a kid.

 

If enough people tell me I am completely wrong. I will bring it up to the Board. The weight, and the fact that we are doing silicon moulds for the 15mm Doggerland terrain, and casting in resin, there, made this decision for us, I think.

 

I know our team would be able to do either. And, if we decided to risk our niche, boutique stance and go with a casting vendor, the costs are not that far apart.

 

I say: resin.

 

Try to convince me I am wrong, and I will happily listen to your arguement.

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Noone is trying to put the fear of god into up and coming miniature companies. Most of us just helped fund Minxs kickstarter. Our concern merely lies in the ability to fund, legitness of the business, quality of miniatures and ability to complete shipment. Red flags go up for various reasons, we just had a lot of them. It's just unsettling to see contradicting information on a previously canceled kickstarter to a new one then an indigogo for another project. We aren't aiming to see you fail, if anything, when you succeed and provide fantastic miniatures for retail, its just more minis to fuel our addiction.

I appreciate that. Let me ask permission from Dina re: a private letter she sent to someone here. I just read it, and I think it answers a few of your concerns and questions. I will see if I can reprint it.

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I am afraid you have a mistaken attitude towards the Reaper forum. Reaper has always been amenable to free discussion of all aspects of the miniatures hobby, regardless of whose products are being discussed. You will note that the Reaper forums have an entire room devoted to Kickstarters, almost all of which are from other companies.

 

Other companies may be less open in their own forums, to be sure.

 

My chief concern and responsibility here is to this community. While I have no doubts as to the experience and enthusiasm of the people behind this Kickstarter, there are certain aspects of its presentation that make me wonder how much it was thought through.

 

There have been a number of unfortunate Kickstarter outcomes, and some members of this community have been touched by them. Some of those projects looked promising at the start. We find it useful to discuss them with each other.

 

It is kind of you to spend time in our little corner of the web explaining your project.

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Yeah we really dont want to scare off other companies. I pretty much only come to these forums to talk about finished minis and look up new kickstarters. We just want to avoid having people get ripped off by another kickstarter that can't fufill either by malice (dreamforge) or incompetence (csm).

 

Also the people in charge of dreamforge now are really good and trustworthy. It was just the guy in charge of their first kickstarter who was scamming people.

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Yeah, I do not think anyone here has set out specifically to bash your project Scott. I certainly have not, although I admit I may have been a bit harsh in this thread. As Pingo and Toasty said, there have been Kickstarters in the past that have ended very badly. I have backed one or two such trainwrecks myself.

 

Scott, when I started looking at your Kickstarter, one thing I tried to look into was what ADW Games had done in the past. I couldn't find anything save the Doggerland brand, for which your two Kickstarters seem to be the first attempts to bring physical product to the market. Yet you speak as if it's a rather big organization, mentioning the salaries of several full-time employees, and talking of bringing things in front of the board. My google-fu is pathetically weak, so I may very well have missed something obvious, but could you tell me a little more of what your team has done in the past, or is it indeed newly formed with the purpose of realizing Doggerland? I do not mean to pry, but logistical setups and past achievements are usually what potential Kickstarter backer will want to know about.

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I am afraid you have a mistaken attitude towards the Reaper forum. Reaper has always been amenable to free discussion of all aspects of the miniatures hobby, regardless of whose products are being discussed. You will note that the Reaper forums have an entire room devoted to Kickstarters, almost all of which are from other companies.

 

Other companies may be less open in their own forums, to be sure.

 

My chief concern and responsibility here is to this community. While I have no doubts as to the experience and enthusiasm of the people behind this Kickstarter, there are certain aspects of its presentation that make me wonder how much it was thought through.

 

There have been a number of unfortunate Kickstarter outcomes, and some members of this community have been touched by them. Some of those projects looked promising at the start. We find it useful to discuss them with each other.

 

It is kind of you to spend time in our little corner of the web explaining your project.

I am completely at your service to discuss any aspect of the KS project, and most aspects of the Doggerland business.

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Yeah, I do not think anyone here has set out specifically to bash your project Scott. I certainly have not, although I admit I may have been a bit harsh in this thread. As Pingo and Toasty said, there have been Kickstarters in the past that have ended very badly. I have backed one or two such trainwrecks myself.

 

Scott, when I started looking at your Kickstarter, one thing I tried to look into was what ADW Games had done in the past. I couldn't find anything save the Doggerland brand, for which your two Kickstarters seem to be the first attempts to bring physical product to the market. Yet you speak as if it's a rather big organization, mentioning the salaries of several full-time employees, and talking of bringing things in front of the board. My google-fu is pathetically weak, so I may very well have missed something obvious, but could you tell me a little more of what your team has done in the past, or is it indeed newly formed with the purpose of realizing Doggerland? I do not mean to pry, but logistical setups and past achievements are usually what potential Kickstarter backer will want to know about.

ADW is, as stated on the website, a subsidiary of Weaver, Chester & Tweed, LLC, a bespoke book publishing company and exclusive publisher for the Moog Archives. Both are privately-held concerns. And, decisions are, yes, made by a Board of Directors.

 

The key vet on this one is that this KS was started by an individual, who was verified on FB, who has several thousand friends. No one is hiding behind a curtain, and the actual manufacturing process/project is very simple. This is not a VR headset that noone will use in 2 years time. This is a KS for little easily manufactured toys.

 

If it fails for any resaon, there is a personal loss of face that will occur. And, obviously, to lose face over not being able to deliver a handful of miniatures is not really worth the trouble. There is no windfall here. The KS is to pay for the production and distribution, and build the Doggerland brand, not make a profit off of $10 here and there. 

 

Ms. Walker is primarily concerned with the IP behind Doggerland, and the various ways that that IP can be developed, ie., games, graphic novels being two of the earliest forvays. And, there are some larger media deals that are in the works that we can not talk about at the moment.

 

This is a small project for a large IP. Sculpting and casting 8-20 minis in 30-45 days is not a huge project. I can think of a number of common occupations that are infinitely more difficult- from making a solid pastry to changing brakes on a car to making a ceramic bowl to being an EMT.

 

Our first art hire was Noumier Tawilah, the artist behind the David Letterman Graphic Novel.

I was a computer engineer for over a decade and a ghost writer for many more.

The other artists are all listed on the Doggerland graphic novel Campaign, and their work should speak for itself.

 

Regarding, bringing product to market. We are all over 30. Some of us are over 40.  We have all brought product to market throughout our professional lives. The expression of that comes from the artwork of Doggerland, which is the best and only fair way to judge the project. If you hate the art, Doggerland is not for you. If you hate the story, it is not for you. But, you must admit that the talent and commitment is there, and it is evidenced by the level of skill and vision found in the art.

 

The level of skill required to bring a handful of miniatures to market is almost negligable. And, the cost to the consumer is basically negligable. The cost to cast is negliable. All of the information needed to cast can be found out in an afternoon.

 

It all comes down to: We have a dedicated sculptor who was trained in spin casting and silicon moulds. If you like the sculpts, you will be very happy with the final result. If you do not like the result, I would happily give you your money back out of my own pocket, and so would ADW.

 

At the end of the day, we are all later years professionals with a long line a professional accomplishments, who just want to share a good story and offer a little something different, a new story to tell, some twist on tired, boring tropes. And, believe me, it does not take all of our graduate degrees, and decades of experience, to get a few toys into a few hands. You must have seen a few bellyflops on KS to worry so much about something so simple, that is meant to be simple fun.

 

Forgive me if I am confused. We are really talking about toys that are less expensive than a good meal in a decent city, and that can help bring new stories to you and your friends for a lifetime.

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Yeah we really dont want to scare off other companies. I pretty much only come to these forums to talk about finished minis and look up new kickstarters. We just want to avoid having people get ripped off by another kickstarter that can't fufill either by malice (dreamforge) or incompetence (csm).

 

Also the people in charge of dreamforge now are really good and trustworthy. It was just the guy in charge of their first kickstarter who was scamming people.

See. That is not something I can understand. Since we have an actual person attached to this KS, there is no where to run. The only option is success.

 

And, two: how can anyone wake up and say "I have a great scam. Minis!"  Wouldn't a tech KS be better? I have worked in a lot of industries and I make my money elsewhere. Doggerland toys and minis are supposed to be the fun part of this project, not our mortage plan.

 

I am repeating myself, but spin casting is simple. We have a fulltime professional that loves the work and has a lot of education and professional experience in super-high quality sculptures.

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Yeah, I do not think anyone here has set out specifically to bash your project Scott. I certainly have not, although I admit I may have been a bit harsh in this thread. As Pingo and Toasty said, there have been Kickstarters in the past that have ended very badly. I have backed one or two such trainwrecks myself.

 

Scott, when I started looking at your Kickstarter, one thing I tried to look into was what ADW Games had done in the past. I couldn't find anything save the Doggerland brand, for which your two Kickstarters seem to be the first attempts to bring physical product to the market. Yet you speak as if it's a rather big organization, mentioning the salaries of several full-time employees, and talking of bringing things in front of the board. My google-fu is pathetically weak, so I may very well have missed something obvious, but could you tell me a little more of what your team has done in the past, or is it indeed newly formed with the purpose of realizing Doggerland? I do not mean to pry, but logistical setups and past achievements are usually what potential Kickstarter backer will want to know about.

Regarding trainwrecks and professionalism: this is why we closed the first KS for Doggerland Skirmish Game. It needed retooling. It needed outside help. There were holes in the rules that playtesters found and enjoyed exploiting. So (and I am repeating Dina's letter to a gentleman who is from here, name escapes me), we did the mature and responsible business move- we shut it down, announced that we were relaunching when we fixed the game. We brought in Andrea Sfiligoi, who is working with me, now, on a "fixed" version of the Skirmish game. 

 

So: in that case, when we saw a problem, we cut the KS and chose not to risk anyone's good will or $, and went back to work to bring out something that will be complete and ready in a month, or so. That was a good call. We could have fixed the loopholes in the rules as we went along, but that would not have been honest. I had a quick start set that was fine. But, the extensive playtesting showed me some errs that needed addressing, even if we had some interesting new mechanics.

 

 

Happy to answer any questions about that, as well. Of interest, you may want to listen to our podcasts on the ADWGames site.  

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Yeah, I do not think anyone here has set out specifically to bash your project Scott. I certainly have not, although I admit I may have been a bit harsh in this thread. As Pingo and Toasty said, there have been Kickstarters in the past that have ended very badly. I have backed one or two such trainwrecks myself.

 

Scott, when I started looking at your Kickstarter, one thing I tried to look into was what ADW Games had done in the past. I couldn't find anything save the Doggerland brand, for which your two Kickstarters seem to be the first attempts to bring physical product to the market. Yet you speak as if it's a rather big organization, mentioning the salaries of several full-time employees, and talking of bringing things in front of the board. My google-fu is pathetically weak, so I may very well have missed something obvious, but could you tell me a little more of what your team has done in the past, or is it indeed newly formed with the purpose of realizing Doggerland? I do not mean to pry, but logistical setups and past achievements are usually what potential Kickstarter backer will want to know about.

ADW is, as stated on the website, a subsidiary of Weaver, Chester & Tweed, LLC, a bespoke book publishing company and exclusive publisher for the Moog Archives. Both are privately-held concerns. And, decisions are, yes, made by a Board of Directors.

 

The key vet on this one is that this KS was started by an individual, who was verified on FB, who has several thousand friends. No one is hiding behind a curtain, and the actual manufacturing process/project is very simple. This is not a VR headset that noone will use in 2 years time. This is a KS for little easily manufactured toys.

 

If it fails for any resaon, there is a personal loss of face that will occur. And, obviously, to lose face over not being able to deliver a handful of miniatures is not really worth the trouble. There is no windfall here. The KS is to pay for the production and distribution, and build the Doggerland brand, not make a profit off of $10 here and there. 

 

Ms. Walker is primarily concerned with the IP behind Doggerland, and the various ways that that IP can be developed, ie., games, graphic novels being two of the earliest forvays. And, there are some larger media deals that are in the works that we can not talk about at the moment.

 

This is a small project for a large IP. Sculpting and casting 8-20 minis in 30-45 days is not a huge project. I can think of a number of common occupations that are infinitely more difficult- from making a solid pastry to changing brakes on a car to making a ceramic bowl to being an EMT.

 

Our first art hire was Noumier Tawilah, the artist behind the David Letterman Graphic Novel.

I was a computer engineer for over a decade and a ghost writer for many more.

The other artists are all listed on the Doggerland graphic novel Campaign, and their work should speak for itself.

 

Regarding, bringing product to market. We are all over 30. Some of us are over 40.  We have all brought product to market throughout our professional lives. The expression of that comes from the artwork of Doggerland, which is the best and only fair way to judge the project. If you hate the art, Doggerland is not for you. If you hate the story, it is not for you. But, you must admit that the talent and commitment is there, and it is evidenced by the level of skill and vision found in the art.

 

The level of skill required to bring a handful of miniatures to market is almost negligable. And, the cost to the consumer is basically negligable. The cost to cast is negliable. All of the information needed to cast can be found out in an afternoon.

 

It all comes down to: We have a dedicated sculptor who was trained in spin casting and silicon moulds. If you like the sculpts, you will be very happy with the final result. If you do not like the result, I would happily give you your money back out of my own pocket, and so would ADW.

 

At the end of the day, we are all later years professionals with a long line a professional accomplishments, who just want to share a good story and offer a little something different, a new story to tell, some twist on tired, boring tropes. And, believe me, it does not take all of our graduate degrees, and decades of experience, to get a few toys into a few hands. You must have seen a few bellyflops on KS to worry so much about something so simple, that is meant to be simple fun.

 

Forgive me if I am confused. We are really talking about toys that are less expensive than a good meal in a decent city, and that can help bring new stories to you and your friends for a lifetime.

 

 

I guess re: bringing to market, you can consider the ADW website and art assets, as well as the podcast on game design "products" brought to maket.

 

You can also look at some of our media company's projects, if you like. I really do not want to blur the lines too much, but we have done a lot work in that field, which is why we come to Doggerland from the IP POV, rather than the game-first POV.

 

And: is there a money back guarantee you can put on a KS? I will look into that. That is something I would embrace. I know our team is that good and too proud to be less than stand-outs in anything they do. There is a lot of smack-talk about bad toys, derivative games, hackneyed ideas, et.al. in the group, and we love it when someone worthwhile hits it out of the park with something original and intelligent.

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Your insistence that producing minis is "trivial" worries me more than anything else I've seen of this project, as it indicates you as a company have not done your research or fully thought through your plan. Many, many Kickstarters with plenty of raw talent and enthusiasm have failed miserably. True, there are harder things in the world, but that does not negate the fact that producing hundreds of individual minis is a costly, difficult, time-consuming task, and too many projects flounder when their creators realize this after collecting funding, and end up way over their heads. I would expect a company looking to launch a project like this to have researched similar projects in the past, which would have made you aware of the many projects that collapsed under the same hubris you are displaying. Having a real person attached is only marginally more than meaningless as well. Lots of people have staked and ruined their reputations on KS.

Your comments here bring up other concerns as well. The resin typically used for minis is notorious for its fragility; it's the last material you would want to use for "action figures." And speaking of which, the target demo here is unclear. You insist these are boutique, display-quality minis, yet also talk about entering them into the action figure/toy market. This is just another of many inconsistencies that suggest this project may not have been fully thought through.

 

EDIT: Basically, claims that something "can't fail" rarely turn out well.

Edited by Slendertroll
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