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Chaoswolf

Rules change?

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As for search via the started by field. It's not searching by that because there's nothing telling the database to search only by that (though searching by title only appears to narrow it down enough that you'll get good results).

Edited by MonkeySloth

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things I've tried, in case anyone hasn't gotten the same results or didn't know about the options...

if you click on the user name in thread, you go to their profile page.
you can, from there, click the "Find Content" button. It will return everything for the past 12 months.
 
You can filter it into topics and posts, only topics, or only posts with quick links on the left side of the page.
I do have to clarify that if you are using a mobile version, this may not work as smoothly, but it will work.
 
Using the search feature's advance options, I did return threads I started back in 2002.  (I used Match "any words", "only search titles", I listed myself as the author, I only got threads started by me) I also know some threads did not survive early forum migrations so there may be things that have been lost. ( ::(:  like my ogre based on a pot roast... long story... ReaperRon is to blame.)
 
If one were to put a link in their status box on their profile, one could, in theory, have a record of links back to older threads in an easy place to find, if one were so inclined.  Click on profile feed to see a record of each previous status posted.  (I changed mine today to demonstrate, if one wished to see an old thread.)  Granted, I don't know how long they'll keep or how many per page will show, but it is something to investigate.
 
I quit posting my paint jobs because no matter how hard I tried, most of the comments were "you need to take better pictures."  It has been a long time since I've posted my minis or WIPs.

Edited by ladystorm
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Division allows more "flow-through". If I am working on Takhisis, that thread only appears when it has a worthwhile update. The rest of the time it is out of the way, waiting back on page 30 or something until next time. My Kaladrax is done, so that thread is consigned to the ether unless it gets a visit from a necromantic poster. If all of my work were in one place, this wouldn't happen. Instead, any time I did anything (or got a comment on anything) my thread would take a Page One slot. With some prolific production on my part, I'd never leave page one. Great for my visibility, and popularity, but not so great when it comes to "fair access" for eyeballs.

Flow through is not always a positive. From your example above, if you split your 100 consolidate WIPs into individual WIP and say those posters have a few things going on at once and are actually posting them, 100 threads updated 3 times per week could become 300 threads updated once per week. Now my new WIP feels crowded out. The feeling I'm getting from this thread is that this scenario wouldn't happen because most people aren't going to bother tracking multiple WIP for tabletop figures. It's something I'm now contemplating as I have a stack of a dozen or so bones sitting out that I want to work on in the near future, but they're not a "group" and I don't really feel like tracking them individually.

 

 

I don't necessarily fully disagree with you, as originaly I thought consolidation would be cleaner and more efficient organization.  I just think it also has the potential (which has not yet happened) to create a different kind of problem.  Now it might not, this is true, but both ways have their merits and problems.  These must be reckoned with dispassionately, in my opinion.  It's not a matter of which we like more, but which works best for the board, is my opinion on it.  In the interest of a broad look at the subject, flaws of either method should be pointed out.  

 

I generally tend to favour showing a WIP of one project at a time, so either method works for me (although I do prefer separate WIPs).  Takhisis is a bit of an outlier, because that's a big project so it's going on while other things are going on.  

 

In terms of reading and utility of same, I think one project at a time works best.  But I also know many people don't work that way.  Nevertheless, the most efficient WIP form would be "I am painting this" and that gets updates until completion, and then on to the next.  As presentation goes, it's cleaner and gets to resolution faster (mostly).  But, again, that's not everybody's comfortable natural working mode.  I think it's objectively the best way, though, to have clearly labelled alike projects that are concise, come to completion sooner, and rotate through - so it's why that's the method I'm working towards.  (This also forces me to be more disciplined with my work, which is something I could use)

 

The thing about this discussion is that some people like things one way, and some do not.  Some people like the big threads, and some find them unwieldy and a big mess.  Since the board is open for everybody, finding best balance to serve the board as a whole should be the objective.  For what I can personally do to achieve this, I think it's best for me to go with split-up projects so that's what I'm doing.  Whether that becomes the standard for everybody is not my decision - but by me doing that, and a few other people who like to work that way, it does help mitigate the potential problems of either method even if big WIPs remain (I'm making one less of them in favour of more concise, smaller ones).

 

I also have the unusual position of on the one hand being an instigator of the big threads, while simultaneously preferring the move away from them.   So I've been on both sides of the subject and, in any case, my individual course going forward is the same anyway.   

 

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In any case, since I am either directly responsible or suspected of same for the trends now causing some difficulty

Consolidated WIPs are the norm on almost every other mini painting forum.

 

As far as searching, I've had no problem finding my WIPs. Often the WIP link (either the index or the actual WIP mid-thread) appears in the list of results before the properly titled and tagged Show Off thread.

 

The thing about this discussion is that some people like things one way, and some do not.  Some people like the big threads, and some find them unwieldy and a big mess.

And some people are no longer allowed to do things the way they like to anymore.
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In any case, since I am either directly responsible or suspected of same for the trends now causing some difficulty

Consolidated WIPs are the norm on almost every other mini painting forum.

 

 

 

 

Maybe, but they weren't the norm here until the last couple of years.  So what's normal everywhere else might represent a significant change for this board where it's 10 years of things one way, then 2 of something different.  If said change creates problems, I think a good case can be made that it's the 2 of something different that should accomodate itself to the pre-existing norms and standards. 

 

 

Edit to add:  And we can also look at it as having 2 years of experimentation with the new way before being told we need to change things because there's a problem.  I mean, that seems like a pretty fair test. 

Edited by buglips*the*goblin

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Thank you for all the tips...

 

things I've tried, in case anyone hasn't gotten the same results or didn't know about the options...
[...]
Using the search feature's advance options, I did return threads I started back in 2002.  (I used Match "any words", "only search titles", I listed myself as the author, I only got threads started by me)

 

...I think I did the underlined bit about 48 hours ago and it failed. But I tried it again with exactly the options as specified, and it worked. ( I think you scared it into working properly. :;): )  I was able to get a list of every thread MSloth started in anywhere in Craft Corner. I also discovered that I have a whopping two threads. (I thought I had only ever made one...)

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I quit posting my paint jobs because no matter how hard I tried, most of the comments were "you need to take better pictures."  It has been a long time since I've posted my minis or WIPs.

 

I think if you look around your current location, you might spot a photo studio set up that would work pretty well to take pictures of miniatures. ;-> Also, in just the past couple of years alone, phone cameras and the like have progressed to the point of being viable options. It's by no means the same quality as if I use my fancy camera with custom settings, but if you throw up even a very basic background and fool with the lights for a few minutes, you can get surprisingly good photos with a recent generation iPhone or iPad. (I haven't had any Android devices to test with, but my guess would be that they would also work better than you might imagine.)

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I quit posting my paint jobs because no matter how hard I tried, most of the comments were "you need to take better pictures."  It has been a long time since I've posted my minis or WIPs.

 

I think if you look around your current location, you might spot a photo studio set up that would work pretty well to take pictures of miniatures. ;-> Also, in just the past couple of years alone, phone cameras and the like have progressed to the point of being viable options. It's by no means the same quality as if I use my fancy camera with custom settings, but if you throw up even a very basic background and fool with the lights for a few minutes, you can get surprisingly good photos with a recent generation iPhone or iPad. (I haven't had any Android devices to test with, but my guess would be that they would also work better than you might imagine.)

 

 

All my WIP and some Show Off are done with the camera in my Motorola Razr running Android, and I think they are quite sharp and nicely balanced.

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So what's normal everywhere else might represent a significant change for this board where it's 10 years of things one way, then 2 of something different.

I often sit in meetings for policy reform. As I work in a library that's been open for something like 120 years, we have some old policies. The previous administration was resistant to change and often things were done 'because that's how they've always been done.' This philosophy almost closed the doors.

 

The new administration has made that a forbidden excuse and we embrace change and try to adapt to the needs of our patrons, even if that makes our jobs tougher. Because at the end of the day, the patron is paramount.

 

I'm also familiar with using a volunteer work force and the restrictions that imposes. But the volunteers have to abide by the rules set forth with the patron in mind. We can't afford volunteers who aren't on board with that.

 

Though I have an obvious bias here (I'll eat the bacon, thanks all the same); my viewpoint is a fairly enlightened one.

 

After six months or whatever the period of discussion will be, people will have either grown into the new way or left. This thread is so much tilting at windmills.

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Maybe a compromise could be a specific forum sub-section for consolidated WIP threads alone (I believe this was tossed out by another person or two), but also moderated by a specific moderator (like Cash does for Show-Offs) and ask the community to also help police themselves a bit better in there with those bigger threads? Then you get the best of both worlds with people doing whatever suits them best for their style and if they like having a bit more chatter with their friends in there. This would also allow the other mods to not have to pay such close attention to these threads unless a report was filed or they wanted to just go in and browse the works and see how people have grown.

 

This really is a fantastic community and I think the whole reason why people are getting so upset over it is because they are passionate about the hobby. Feathers can get ruffled more easily when things are seen as being taken away when someone has grown to love something and put so much work into it. 

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I don't have a bias here, since my posting choice was decided before the first thread of discussion came up in the first place.  And I've done it both ways.  And I'm not especially picky about which way dominates.

 

But I do think two things:

 

1.  Changing to the new rules is seriously not grounds enough to leave.  I just don't get that.  The new rules don't disallow anything except piling it all in one thread, and I don't see how it makes much significant difference and certainly not that it makes significant enough difference for people to threaten to leave.

 

2.  As users of this board, which Reaper has provided and who have been pretty good to us as a whole, it would be nice to see people willing to adapt and accomodate Reaper's pretty reasonable wishes instead of defaulting to obstructive and/or threatening to leave over it if they don't get their way. 

 

That latter part, in particular, bugs me, since Reaper has explicitly said they have given the matter considerable thought, weighed options and feedback, and taken it seriously.  Because it's pretty much as good as "give me what I want or I leave".  That's not an attempt to adapt to the rules and work to preserve the spirit of community within them.  If the community spirit actually means that much, I think more people should step up to work within the framework and make the best of it than to be obstinate. 

 

That would be my approach, even if I was totally on board with consolidated WIPs as a preference.  Because the good of the board and the wishes of our hosts mean more to me than my personal preference.  I guess if it means enough to people for them to leave over it if the decision sticks in the way they don't want, that's how it will be.  But I'll still be here, doing what I do, because I'm invested in the place enough to stick it out.   

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@Buglips -

 

I can see both sides of the equation really and I think you are not really seeing how valuable the consolidated WIP threads have become to a lot of people, you are also not really seeing how passionate people are about them. It's not about trying to go against the rules, it's about the sense of community people feel with their peers in the threads that they've put blood, sweat, and tears into (to be cliche).

 

Yes, it's not our playground and not our rules.

 

Yes, people are upset enough to leave over it since they care so much.

 

It is not about "give me what I need or I'm leaving," as we are all adults here. But at the same time, people will migrate to something/some place that they are comfortable with and if they feel that this isn't the place that they want to spend time in that is their prerogative.

 

So I highly respect Reaper and the Moderators for taking it all under consideration again after the community outcry. They've made this such a great place to be otherwise there wouldn't be this big of a stink over it all.

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For those thinking of leaving it's not so much "take my ball and leave" as opposed to "this service no longer fits my needs, I'll go elsewhere".  Yes, this forum is a service-- like twitter, evernote and any of the other thousands out there-- and Reaper is providing it in hopes that we'll buy more of their stuff and recommend Reaper to people.  And, if it no longer fulfills the purpose of the user they have every right to go somewhere else.

 

That may seam a bit cold as this is also a community with many great people and friendships but if they're of any significance those friendships can move past this tiny little IP address in the net.

 

Now will many of us truly leave? Probably not completely as it's really only one small part of the forum that no longer fits our needs so I can't see all but the most angry people leaving (and I'm not even sure there really are any that angry)-- but some good painting relating discussions very well may.

Edited by MonkeySloth
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So....because now I'm confused. What's to stop someone from taking a picture of, say the entire vampire box and making a wip on that? O_o

We already, in fact, have one of those, and it is permitted by forum guidelines.

 

In the interest of full disclosure: the author of that thread is my wife, and I was the one who suggested the thread format within the WIP forum.  I personally believe it to be a project which falls within the parameters set forth - that is, Declare a project, be it one mini, 7 minis modeled after Marvel characters, an unknown number of trees, an unknown number of goblin villagers, or an entire KS reward package (up to an including "Everything I backed for at all") can constitute a theme.

 

My general rule of thumb is If I can give it a concise title, it's probably one theme.  Everything I did this week.  A Dungeon Battle. A group of Adventurers. What I painted last Month: a WIP journey across 31 days.  

 

So long as the title is clear and the content remains connected to the title.

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@Buglips -

 

I can see both sides of the equation really and I think you are not really seeing how valuable the consolidated WIP threads have become to a lot of people, you are also not really seeing how passionate people are about them.

 

On what grounds could you possibly make that claim?  I am well aware of their merit, and the passionate investment people have in them.  I also happen to be of the opinion that the community can be equally fun, vibrant, active, and rewarding without them and have expended much effort in this thread politely trying to convince people of same. 

 

You may remember I encouraged people to make consolidated WIP threads, in addition to maintaining one of my own.  I should think this qualifies me to speak to their merits and be well aware of them.  I'm just making a case that we can get along just fine under the new system. 

 

 

ETA:  And particularly so, given Bryan's parameters listed above.  (Unless I'm mistaken, that actually means my Bones WIP thread would qualify)  That's really not a severe limitation. 

Edited by buglips*the*goblin

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