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[red5angel]

I think one thing we're all forgetting is that this is sci fi, and OD green really only works on Earth or vegetative enviroments

 

I'd hoped we weren't talking about just OD but situation specific camo and assuemd everyone else understood that!

 

 

As for manpower and all that, I'm surprised you guys haven't realized the advantage of high technology. Who needs men to pain now a days, or who needs expensive?! Who isn't to say that a simple hologrpahic system over a neutral color can't "paint" a mech with the apropriate camo for any situation?

 

Besides, if you had to repaint an entire regiment, how long would that take even the most experienced pit crew? I mean, how long does it take to paint a camo scheme on a M1A1, let along a 34' war machine that weighs 110 tons and is a really odd shape?

 

Actually not all that long anymore. They generally roll them into shacks and paint them in a few hours, a relatively speaking that is a reasonable amount of time.

 

Also I could go with mercs not bothering spending the money but for other types of units survivability = good moral.

 

All in all there are no "official" paint schemes but what is in the JOR. Most of those are race car like in scheme and them then true warmachines (in a game where its strongest supporters like the fact it represents future scifi warfare "realistically" :) )

[Lars Porsenna]

In truth Ladystorm, even my own First Blood didnt' look long enough to identify the type of flower.... it's a case of CAV=SHOOT! :o) But they are beautifully painted models and they do catch you unawares.... even though you'd told me I still had to do a double take. I can't wait to see the first 1/60th scale CAV in that scheme :o)

 

On the issue of camo, at least in the case of my own units, it's mainly a psyops thing. Bad Blood has a reputation (we did win the Warmaster afterall), as do many player units about these parts and in the books, and playing to that reputation (in my case, big and slow with scaly skin and big guns) can help you win a battle.... and therefore save lives and thus improve your reputation even further and so on.

 

When you combine that with Chrome's excellent point on the cost (more manpower... afterall, I'd rather have a fully functional CAV than one with a situation specific camo scheme) of repainting your entire force every time you go to another world/region and also the point Kamut made on 'alien worlds' I am happy having striking and obvious units.

 

Besides, if you had to repaint an entire regiment, how long would that take even the most experienced pit crew? I mean, how long does it take to paint a camo scheme on a M1A1, let along a 34' war machine that weighs 110 tons and is a really odd shape?

 

I'll keep me blood red thanks :o)

There are ways around it. FREX, in WWII German tanks were often issued with spray guns that ran of the engine's compressor, so they could be camo'd in the field, really in any place where you had enough room to walk around the vehicle and no one was shooting at you!

 

Having a generic paint scheme is good too. For my generic battletech pieces I took a page from the WWII Germans. All of them are painted in a dark grey scheme, which reduces visibility in dark areas (like forests), but pick up a healthy coating of dust in open or dry areas. In N. Africa the first German units deployed there simply slathered mud all over their vehicles, which was very effective, as the mud was the same color as the sand when it dried. And in winter all you need to do is get the tech crew to slather whitewash on the machine, using mops "requisitioned" from the nearest supermarket...

 

Mars actually has a wider variety of environments than just "rust red". If you're deployed to the two polar caps, then a rust red scheme would be inappropriate, but one with a whitewash pattern breaker would. Similarly, on old lava flows (dark basalt color) things would be different.

 

One more note, a historical adage. In ancient times (really up until modern times) some armies tried to frighten enemy infantry by charging at them with horses, either in chariots or mounted on them. Seeing a couple hundred pound, large animal flaring up towards you, usually with an armored man with some sharp pointy things behind or atop it, usually your first thought is to get out of the way! However, a point in horse psychology is that they never willingly run straight into something if they can. Modern riot police mounted on horses have to deal with this same fact (besides, the chances of your horse getting killed or being lamed is pretty high when you try to crash through formed infantry, and I doubt most warriors would risk that; when William Marshalls horse was killed in a skirmish sometime in the mid 12th C, he was in desperate straits and had to sell his only fine cloak to buy another...). The point, however, is that if you give into fear and run, you're dead. But if you're trained and face the cavalry in close order and presenting weapons, you were relatively safe. The point is, no matter how flamboyantly or scarily painted your machine is, if the enemy is trained and know what he's doing, then they can cope and will not see your colorful scheme as being intimidating. It might work against peasants armed with pitchforks, but not against trained foot knights in close order armed with pollaxes...

 

Damon.

[KAMUT]

I hear you Lars, makes sense what your saying. And yes, a trained soldier isn't easily intimidated or at least works around the intimidation, but I see where Frank is coming from too.

 

Bad Blood does have a reputation to protect, and slowly but surely, Lone Wolf Company is building up a reputation too, though I'm yet for any of my elements to compete in the Reaper Warmaster.

 

with that reputation comes the intimidation, and when you have a standard you follow by, the intimidation comes with that standard. So he follows a few simple schemes, and whether or not it camos well, Bad Blood is still a tough cookie to break.

 

I'm not saying this because we're "allies" either, I examined the differences in our styles, and we're almost on opposites sides of the spectrum, but equally effective.

 

One day, we'll meet at an official warmaster and it'll be very interesting what we do with 1750 points. almost like "the Tiger and the Crane" as far as tactics go.

 

but back to the point, its pretty easy to identify his element, which in turn is good for business. and thats the point.

 

survivability is an issue too, and I agree you can't top good camo. its still very effective in the 23rd century or 34th century. some things are timeless.

 

I can't imagine any merc in the 23rd century having a wider scope of operations than a few choice systems anyway, so obviously some practicality is in order; IE you can't spring an ambush if your spotted early, can you?

 

In thinking, this is probably why the Wild Apaches are so effective in their native environment. After a long drawn out game, I sometimes fail to realize that one or two units hidden in the thicket.

 

Like I was saying before, in autumn terrain its hard to see her CAVs from a few feet.

 

I remember the German Battleship Tirpitz had a bit of a camo breaker too.

[Leech]

Most of the surface combatants in the Kriegsmarine had some form of camo scheme to break up their sillhouette, but that's because you've especially vulnerable when you're skylined by the horizon. It's also why the Japanese (I think, could have been the germans) had the smoke stacks pointed towards the sea surface and usually ended below the weatherdeck so that the smoke would dispurse more... it was a dead giveaway.

 

If you're talking high tech, then I suppose a CAV can be painted fairly quickly... but how expensive is that tech gonna be in the first place? The same goes for holographic shields etc.... mercs would probably go for firepower over that stuff. I know Bad Blood does.

 

If you've set up an ambush, who's to say you haven't built a hide of some kind, or even deployed holofields?

 

One correction, the colour schemes for the merc units in the JoR1 are the actual colour schemes. The rulebook has info on whether they use any other scheme... some do and some don't.

[red5angel]

If you're talking high tech, then I suppose a CAV can be painted fairly quickly... but how expensive is that tech gonna be in the first place?

 

Well this falls into that hypothetical argument category. I could say that at this stage of the game it should be fairly cheap, I mean you are walking around in legged tanks using holgraphic virtual displays and interacting with AI's.....

 

If you've set up an ambush, who's to say you haven't built a hide of some kind, or even deployed holofields?

 

Probably a cheaper alternative in general, if you have the time.

[blitz]

If nanotechnology in the CAV universe is advanced enough for field repairs, then it should be able to generate and alter a paint scheme, even in the middle of combat.

 

The military is already looking at it.

[Marlfox]

It takes the US Air Force one month to paint an F-16. That includes taping it up (you can't just paint over the radar panels), completely sanding it down (which involves removing most of the panels on the jet), then priming it and painting it. This is why the Air Force doesn't change paint schemes whenever they get deployed. Right now we use a grey scheme that most efficiently breaks up the fighter's sillouette.

 

A newer technique was experimented with on the F-22 using photo-reactive cells that change color depending on the amount of light on the jet. The only reason we don't use this methold is the pricetag...the jet's already too much.

 

But really, when it comes to miniatures you want an army that looks striking. It may not be feasible or realistic, but it does look good. It also allows your army to be completely unique. And in my opinion, that's what all the painting is about.

[KAMUT]

Nanotechnology,

duh, there you go right there.

 

good call Blitz.

 

When off duty, the CAVs default to their corporate colours, and when assigned a contract, they can be programmed to take the camo of their area of contract.

 

makes perfect sense to me now.

[Froggy the Great]

Yeah, but this means that you just paint your CAVs to match your personal terrain, and then claim factionwide nanobot failures when you play elsewhere.

[Erion]

Yeah, but this means that you just paint your CAVs to match your personal terrain, and then claim factionwide nanobot failures when you play elsewhere.

Yes.

 

Besides, I like my blaze orange, caution yellow, and black striped CAV's.

[KAMUT]

Not nessesarily, Froggy.

 

Think of it like this, how much is abstract in CAV already? Paint your CAVs in your corporate colours, and on the tabletop, visualize them as camoed. doesn't make a difference to gameplay, considering everyone knows where everything is already at anyway.

 

I've used ambush scenario rules in quite a few scenarios, just pick a turn or trigger for when to place the hidden CAVs on the table.

 

I've also used blank hex bases to mark the position of an unindentified unit in the bush. when LOS is established, put the model on the board.

 

those are pretty easy ways to play out ambushes or diversions

[Chrome]

Don't listen to Blitz! You'll just give him a big head.

 

You know what the problem with on-the-fly nanotech paintjobs would be? I'd change all of my units to look identical to the enemy units. It wouldn't confuse their computers, but infantry and anyone using their first instinct and looking would be confused as heck.

[KAMUT]

hey, nobody said war was pretty.

confusion is the key.

 

Blitz, feel free to get the big head.