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Joe the Revelator

Hobbit 3: Battle Training

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I can't like this. I was took annoyed by the last movie. And just generally annoyed by the fact that that.... person took what should have been at most a two movie book and turned it into three.

 

Of course, calling him a person insults all the other persons on the planet, but the forums are family friendly so I can't call him what I really think of him.

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I'm on the other side of the fence with this one.  But then again, I'm not a guardian of the text (I wasn't sure why Tom Bombadil needed to exist).  That's not to say that I'm not a fan of the text (full disclosure, I read all of the appendices, but did get bored in the Silmarillian).

 

I was extremely skeptical about the splitting of The Hobbit (I figured that there was barely enough material for one film there).  After watching it, I decided that Peter Jackson did an excellent job of adapting some incredibly difficult material.  And including so much appendix story line (and moving it to where it is dramatically relevant) convinced me that they could justify the screen time (unlike a certain splitting of a Harry Potter book so that the entire film takes place in a tent).

 

I do like how they've given motivations and personalities to the Dwarves, for example.  And character arcs for characters other than the hobbits- those have been nice additions.  Oh, and changing the confrontation with Sauron so that it doesn't happen off screen where you sort of hear about it from Gandolf when he tells Frodo in Fellowship of the Ring- yep, way better to show that.

 

But I understand that there's no real pleasing true guardians of the text.

Edited by odinsgrandson
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Those changes aren't a bother to me. It's the complete character changes of folks like Elrond the bother the heck out of me, even the adition of Legolas to the Hobbit movies didn't bother me much, it was a good tie together of the two, but yeah...some of the changes really just got under my skin more than others. 

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Elrond?  He pretty much matches what I read in the Lord of the Rings.

 

Now, the Hobbit is a different world- I remember the elves of Rivendel were comical.  I'm not convinced that the books take place in the same setting, and reconciling The Hobbit to the established Middle Earth setting is also a feat of adaptation.

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I don't consider myself a guardian of the text, but I like a good story and I hate a crummy story.

 

The bloated, imbalanced, Hollywoodified, fictionalized, insulting-to-dwarves trilogy of movies is a crummy story.

 

The book had more nuance, subtletly, and meaning. And way better characterization.

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Elrond came across as a big jerk to me in the movies, which was something I never took from the character in the books. But that's my take on it. I'm biased. I'm really looking forward to the final installment of The Hobbit. It means that Jackson will be out of Tolkien IP to modify, and given his family's open opinions on the film adaptations I don't foresee them turning loose of any more of it. 

 

I'm glad that a lot of people seem to love the movies, and wish them happy watching. Cheers. 

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Elrond of the books was a wise, resigned, forgiving sort of person, whereas in the movies he was bitter, angry, and blameful. The dwarves in the movies are mostly ridiculous, whereas in the books the only one that is truly ridiculous is the fat one (Bomfur? iirc) and even he has his moments.

 

Jackson stripped away all the humourous moments, replacing them Gimli the Idiot Dwarf and Merry and Pippin the Two Clown Hobbits. The movies ended up being rather melodramatic. I laughed out loud in the theater when Galadriel did her whole Dark Queen speech to Frodo; probably not the effect they were going for there.

 

As for the point of Tom Bombadil, what's the point of anyone you met along the way of an adventure? Bombadil saved them from themselves when they got lost in the woods and again in the hills. If LotRs was a recounting of DnD adventure Bombadil was a powerful NPC the DM had save his idiot PCs when they were just starting out. Because Tolkien wanted him in the story, that's the point, and it was his story =P

 

Also, the eagles were busy when they set out, that's why. =P

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I always took the point of Bombadil, who was one of my favorite characters in the story, to be that there were older and more powerful than Sauron, forces for GOOD in middle earth. Up until that point in the story it seems like there can be no respite from evil, Gandalf is afraid to take the ring due to it's corrupting influence, the elves are too distant to help and everywhere evil is closing in. Yes, Bombadil is like a shaft of sunlight that shines through the storm clouds. Only there for a moment perhaps, but long enough to show you that there is a sun still shining above the darkness and that gives you hope.

 

These movies were not made for fans, they were made to draw the masses and their money in. I had to tell myself that during the LotR trilogy, although it was somewhat easier to bear as those movies as least tried to stay faithful to the story. So far it has been quite the challenge to remind myself of this during the Hobbit trilogy.

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My biggest grip (of which there are many) is that dwarves in the new movies are born with one of two genetic pre-dispositions. Comedically clumsy to the point of insulting (Dominant) or so brooding and proud they're almost ignorant (recessive).

 

So much I don't like that's been "enhanced" or adapted, yet I can't stop myself from getting hopeful about the next movie. Probably because my brain is whiskey-infused oatmeal with floating neurons desperately shouting at each other.

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. Probably because my brain is whiskey-infused oatmeal with floating neurons desperately shouting at each other.

You should lay off the oatmeal then. Too much mush.

 

Might be a good idea to lay off the whiskey too. Since, you know, it's technically poison. :rock:

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Hey, he's the one who said his brain was whiskey-infused oatmeal; alcohol in moderation isn't a bad thing, but when your neurons are floating in it, it might be time to cut back a bit. Maybe put something else in there. Hot chocolate maybe. Or steak and mashed taters. Something with substance. Dwarves, alcoholics though they be, should approve of substance =P

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I just despise how they thought they needed to write in characters.  Not to improve the story, just to improve the demographics.  I understand that women are thin on the ground in Tolkien but writting in ham fisted attempts is worse.  They did it in The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.  I detect a definite lack of understanding by the writers in all of these movies about what makes Tolkien's characters interesting.  Everything in Middle Earth is a product of a deep and interesting history, including the way characters act.  For this reason I found Arwen's increased role to be far less annoying than Tauriel.  At least Arwen is still an elf, still has understandable motivations and might be deeper than a puddle.  Tauriel is a vapid and worthless character.  She is a hot girl that fights and immediately falls deeply in love for no reason.  She acts completely against what should motivate her character.  She is a prop.  I get that she was written in for the female audience but why would women like her?  I'm pretty sure they don't but maybe I'm wrong.

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