Grainy Paint

[Hells_Clown]

Since I started thining my paints and attempting to put them on in layers, I've noticed that often when I do this all I get is a washed out look with what looks like a few grains of paint left on the surface. Not pleasing to say the least.

 

My method of thinning is something like: 1 - 2 drops of paint (Vallejo Model Colors usually) 1 drop Liquitex dry retarder, 1 - 2 drops of distilled water.

 

 

The amounts may change depending on how much surface area I intend to paint (larger areas get more paint and water but rarely more dry retarder).

 

I touch the brush to a paper towel to remove access and use light brush strokes but still often get the aforementioned grainy look, if I see anything at all.

 

So oh mighty paint gurus, what can this lowly untouchable of a painter do to improve so as to not insult the minis I am attempting to paint and further sully the image of mini painters everywhere?

[MinipainterUS]

Without actually seeing the problem, my guess would be that your Vallejos need to be shaken more. If you are shaking them as you would a normal paint, the pigments are not getting distributed through the binder medium so you are thinning with your mix something less than the fully loaded paint.

 

If the problem is actual physical graininess, this is a result of the fillers/inert ingredients being rough. Generally, whites and reds seem to be notorious for it, although that has changed somewhat with the use of liquid pigments.

 

OR it could be something else entirely.

[Crusoe the Painter]

The normal vallejo paints dilute poorly with a lot of mediums, except for the vallejo blending gel. The pigments tend to seperate, and you get some weird effects.

 

For Model colors, the following mediums work well for making washes...

vallejo airbrush medium

reaper ink extender ( works very well )

 

These do not cause the pigment to drop out, or look weird.

 

The Vallejo game colors work just fine with about anything, Liquitex, Folkart gel, etc..

[gwawl]

I have no problem with Vallejo Model Color paints thinned with WN Flow Improver and Slo-dri. I did buy a paint shaker to use especially with the Vallejo paints and find it necessary to mix these paints each new session of painting.

[Paintrix]

You may be adding too much retarder in the proportion; it has a tendency to make thin layers grainy when overused.

 

It also sounds like you may simply be overthinning the paint without adding any agent to help pigment flow. There's a certain point at which you have too little paint spread over too large an area, and you won't have any sort of real coverage--the 'washed out' look you mention.

 

Try shaking better (an agitator in the Vallejo bottles *really* helps), thinning less (perhaps 2 parts paint to 1 part water), and using a flow improver instead of the retarder. It will help keep the pigment in suspension and aid in putting down a smooth, homogenous layer. Some painters also have good results adding acrylic medium rather than flow improver (the Vallejo brand works well with its other products, of course). It's essentially a clear paint base and has similar effects.

[Hells_Clown]

You may be adding too much retarder in the proportion; it has a tendency to make thin layers grainy when overused.

 

It also sounds like you may simply be overthinning the paint without adding any agent to help pigment flow. There's a certain point at which you have too little paint spread over too large an area, and you won't have any sort of real coverage--the 'washed out' look you mention.

 

Try shaking better (an agitator in the Vallejo bottles *really* helps), thinning less (perhaps 2 parts paint to 1 part water), and using a flow improver instead of the retarder. It will help keep the pigment in suspension and aid in putting down a smooth, homogenous layer. Some painters also have good results adding acrylic medium rather than flow improver (the Vallejo brand works well with its other products, of course). It's essentially a clear paint base and has similar effects.

Good points all, I'll have to try them.

 

I'm still confused as to the differences betwixt flow aid, retarder, mediums, etc...I just get 'em cuz the Immortals (like yourself) come down from Olympus and tell pathetic weaklings like me that we should use them.

 

 

 

You're the first painter I've heard tell someone they might be thinning their paints too much. Usually the advice is "thin, thin, thin". I was getting to the point where I was gonna add one drop paint to a gallon of water and that still wouldn't be thin enough.

[Vaitalla]

Actually, HC, Jennifer is right, I think you're thinning your paint too much. And, apart from what other people may say, thinning paint too much is actually a common problem when starting layering--in fact, I made this same mistake when I was trying to learn the technique, which is why your description set off little "too thin!" alarm bells in my head.

 

I have never had a problem with Vallejo Model Colors, washes, and the extender and flow improver I use. Yes, the pigment will separate out a little from washes on the palette as the time passes, but heck, you mix it up a little and it's fine again.

 

--Anne

[gwawl]

I'm still confused as to the differences betwixt flow aid, retarder, mediums, etc...I just get 'em cuz the Immortals (like yourself) come down from Olympus and tell pathetic weaklings like me that we should use them.

I use the following links to Golden as a general description of Flow aids, retarders and mediums. Note that additives do not produce a film while mediums do.

http://www.goldenpaints.com/prodadd.htm

 

http://www.goldenpaints.com/mediums.htm#1001

 

I've overthinned my paints with the same result you mention from insufficent pigment.

[Hells_Clown]

Actually, HC, Jennifer is right, I think you're thinning your paint too much. And, apart from what other people may say, thinning paint too much is actually a common problem when starting layering--in fact, I made this same mistake when I was trying to learn the technique, which is why your description set off little "too thin!" alarm bells in my head.

 

I have never had a problem with Vallejo Model Colors, washes, and the extender and flow improver I use. Yes, the pigment will separate out a little from washes on the palette as the time passes, but heck, you mix it up a little and it's fine again.

 

--Anne

Oh I don't doubt she's right.

 

I'll have to play with the ratios of paint to water and other stuff. I was trying to get that transparent look that you mentioned though. But when I do that, see my original post.

 

As for the pigment seperating eventually, mine usually seperates immediately and with some mixes, depending on what colors I am using, they never seem to fully mix. I'm thinking I'm not shaking my paints enough. Have to work on that too.

 

And lest ye think me ungrateful, quite the contrary, I always try to take in the advice given here. It is always appreciated.

 

John

[Digital M@]

Remember it should barely be transparent. If it is too translucent, then you will get spotchy grainy paint. You are right, it does take so playing with. I use a premix of the above mentioned water, slo-dry, and floaid (it is all mixed together in a bottle). I then just add that to the paint on my pallet, one drip at a time. I use Anne's mix and can post it tonight if you wish. The premix may not be a flebible as dishing out the individual parts, but it keeps things easy. Matt likes things easy.

[Hells_Clown]

Mat: I'm always on the look out for nifty new tips, tricks and recipies.

 

Post away.

[Death Angel]

OK, I kow that most of you DON'T use metric so you may have to do some converting here but I have a little recipie that hasn't failed me yet. Just don't use it on metalic paints. It sends them crazy.

I have a 100ml bottle with 40ml water, 40ml thinner (flo aid) and 20ml extender (dri slow) and two drops of dishwashing liquid (it doesn't seem to matter what sort). I add 1 drop of this to 1 drop of paint to just thi it up for regular use, and increase it to 2 drops per 1 of paint for a wonderfully silky consistancy that I use most of the time. Three drops will give you a perfect wash consistancy.

Hope this helps.

 

On the other hand, I do agree with the other that your paint is to thin, I am a huge believer that thin paint is the way to better looking mini's but there is a such thing as toooooooo thin. I find some people say thin your paint more when they really mean, don't have so much paint on your brush. I had the same problem as you when I first started with a painter mate of mine telling me I was useing my paint to think still. I was about ready to drown him in it as it was almost 90% water at that point, when what he really ment was I was overloading my brush. Good luck with it all.