Marlfox Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Do CAV sections have any type of "command distance" like similar games? I'm talking about a max distance between units, etc. I've seen pictures of games and there have been lots of single CAVs running around. I can understand one or two sections beat down to one CAV, but four or five? Seems implausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Jag Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 To my knowledge there is no command distance restrictions to CAV sections. I sure hope not too. We've never played it that way... I don't recall ever reading it in the rules either. Hmmm... sounds like an interesting story behind your signature Marlfox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Froggy the Great Posted February 6, 2004 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2004 There is no command distance or unit cohesion distance in CAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan6 Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 There is no command distance or unit cohesion distance in CAV. Thank the powers that be. Another dumb rule in that "other" game by that "other" company I hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erion Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Yeah. CAV's have radios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlfox Posted February 7, 2004 Author Share Posted February 7, 2004 In that case, why do the rules insist on forming sections of four CAVs, with only one odd-sized section (I'm paraphrasing, of course). If there's no unit cohesion, then what's the point? And what's with the hatred of big companies? I do disagree with most of GWs business policies (basing the price of a miniature on the effectiveness of the mini as opposed to the actual price of the mini, for one). But it seems like all independant companies REALLY dislike the big companies. CAV has Battletech and 40K, Chronopia (an independant game by Target Games, then Excelsior) has Warhammer. Just seems odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeneki Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 I don't think the lack of command radius has anything to do with company politics. In many scifi games, it's assumed that units can communicate with each other regardless of distance, thus the concept of command distance is not as important. Electronics is highly emphasized in CAV, so it's safe to assume the can give and receive orders fairly easily. Reaper’s Warlord game does have command distance. In its fantasy world, communication is more limited by sight/shouting/etc, so command distance is more of an issue. Section sizes have to do with activating units. This helps avoid you-go-I-go, and it keeps players active in the game at all times. The majority of modern wargames have alternating activations or some variation thereof. It works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red5angel Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 The other thing you have to keep in mind is that sometimes "command distance" doesn't necessarily mean "communication distance" It's well known that morale and the desire to fight drop off sharply with the distance between your basic trooper and their commanders increases. On top of that if you consider the effect of powerful ECM effects on a modern battlefield, suddenly just having a radio doesn't mean squat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Sections are there to balance defensive fire. Plain and simple. Its also why the Templars don't have 6 to a section and other groups having 5 or 3. It unbalanced the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Lightning 2 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I wouldn't necessarily call it "Command Distance" anyway. It's called Cohesion. And, it has more to do with troop moral than with talking to each other. Hypothetical situation: You in the middle of Normandy, France during the initial D-Day invasion. You've got machine guns mowing down everybody in sight, artillery to the point you can't even see straight. It's a big, fat, hairy furball and you're right in the middle of it. Suddenly, you can't find the rest of your unit. They just vanished. Now, what do you do? Maybe you guys have tougher nerves than I do, but, I'd f-ing freak out! I feel that cohesion is a very good game mechanic because that's what it is, unit cohesion. And, if you don't like that, then you probably aren't going to want to play many historical games... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leech Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 The morale side of unit cohension is something I think is missing in CAV. Afterall, if you're in a Sabretooth and the Rhino next to you just got smacked like a (insert name of something that gets smacked REALLY hard) then you may brick it... even if the Rhino crew's shrugging it off and getting kicks from their massive volkswagens flying downrange.... The fact that suppression is totally independant is something which has irked me since day 1. And it's this which would require unit cohesion rules, even if they weren't enforced like in 40k and were more along the lines of "+1 to suppression checks when within 12" of sectionmates" kind of cohesion rules. Marlfox, I agree completely. In fact, when the GW bashing (or other company) gets too heated (or hipocritical, whichever happens first) I tend to report them to the mods. Although I will admit GW US seems to have drastically different policies than GW. But at the end of the day, badmouthing only gets you labelled as a whinger, and doesn't do any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red5angel Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 The fact that suppression is totally independant is something which has irked me since day 1. And it's this which would require unit cohesion rules, even if they weren't enforced like in 40k and were more along the lines of "+1 to suppression checks when within 12" of sectionmates" kind of cohesion rules. I think you have the relationship all wrong Leech. you can suppress an individual and you can suppress a unit depending on how they operate. Often you can suppress one part of a unit only to be flanked by other members of that unit. some games have chosen to go with the "leave no man behind" idea, that if one guy can't keep up no one is moving and personally I find that sort of stupid. I oculd however go with the idea you might get a bonus for maintaining some cohesion but personally I hate forced cohesion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leech Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Suppression is the term used in CAV for morale of all kinds. If something's suppressed, their morale is broken..... and I think having a mild cohesion rule which takes the tactical situation into account when testing to see if a specific CAV is broken is something which would add a lot to CAV. Perhaps a scenario rule would be appropriate here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red5angel Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 my problem with cohesion in games is that it is forced. I wouldn't mind a cohesion rule that implies a loss of morale if you don't keep it, but I don't want to see it become an absolute. Especially in tanks or CAV since morale tends to work somewhat differently when you are surrounded buy several tons of high tech armor and are capable of delivering several tons of high tech ammo down range! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leech Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Hence why I suggested both it being an optional rule, and it simply providing a bonus in some situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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