Completed Barbarian Hordes by Red Box Games (KS #6)

[CashWiley]

I just checked my 2nd copy of Svetlana (Tre has my painted one :)) and she's got normally sculpted eyes. But some others from that 1st KS have the deep recesses.

 

I think it's not so much sculpting flatter (ala Keith etc) as not having the deeper recesses at the edges. The curvature is a bit exaggerated given the small proportions Tre likes to sculpt, at the opposite end of the spectrum of current Keith/Schubert/Jackson stuff that can approach anime at times.

 

Again, I don't really want Tre to change much, I see it more as being aware that at times he can sculpt in a way that limits a painter and makes it very difficult to paint good eyes. That he has sculpted proper and improper eyes in the same releases (KS versions, if you will) shows that it may not be intentional or even something he is aware of?

 

I dug out a couple examples. Luther is sculpted by Bobby Jackson and has a similar sized head to Rollo, and his eyes are quite small, about the same size as Rollo's, in fact. I painted Luther about six months before reapercon (a big level up time for me). Sure, I took the easy route of side glance (though it was dictated by the pointing sculpt) and it's '1 step' eyes. But I was able to get pretty good results despite my lack of skill and the small surface.

 

Rollo was painted 8 months after reapercon, after I did my best eyes on Noreth, and only allowed a 1-step eye. I can't even tell you how many times I tried to get something before I gave up. I wanted an intense straight-ahead stare...well, luckily they are deep-set and in shadow because yikes. My problem is that otherwise this may have been my best piece and the sculpt on the eyes made it extremely difficult to complete the paint job. And 'just stuffing in green stuff' is a) not simple and b) excusing the sculpt.

 

 

Tre, please do not take this too harshly and for the love of Thor don't change the proportions! You're doing awesome work, this is really a small tweak that unfortunately happens to be on the most important part of a mini :)

[Adrift]

I agree with Cash's assessment.

 

Maybe my problem is that the 'ball' that exists for the pupil, which is to be expected with a Tre sculpt/other sculptors, isn't what I've gotten accustomed to painting over the last few years. So it could be a 'reference criteria' problem of mine.

[MonkeySloth]

I like the ball for the eye if done right. The problem is on some sculpts they make the eyes not proportionate to each other as one ball will be longer and thinner, or some other shape that's different, while not being really caused by a facial expression. The other problem is with some casters that let the molds go to long so one will come out well and the other will come out horrible.

 

Both of those make it hard, for me, to paint good eyes, but the ball in general isn't much of an issue as I'm pretty sure I've painted way more ball eyes then non ball eyes. But I can see how some wouldn't like them--especially if you're trying to do high detailed eyes. Though, personally, I think those eyes wouldn't look good on the more realistic sculpts done by Trebeard.

 

Unfortunately I don't have access to most of my KS1 or KS3 stuff so I can't look back to the figure Cash used as an example to see what the sculpt would be like to paint (kind of need something like that in hand).

 

I think a lot more people have access to the past 2 KSers so shall we discuss eyes relating to those then chaps?

Edited February 28, 2015 by MonkeySloth

[CashWiley]

Again, MS, it's not the ball itself, but that it's set in as the pupil rather than the entire eye.

[ub3r_n3rd]

Again, MS, it's not the ball itself, but that it's set in as the pupil rather than the entire eye.

Yup, this. It restricts us a bit.

[MonkeySloth]

Ahh, so it's a sculpted pupil that forces a specific look?

Edited February 28, 2015 by MonkeySloth

[ub3r_n3rd]

Ahh, so it's a sculpted pupil that forces a specific look?

Yes. Means that you need to paint it as is unless you want to try to fiddle with the pupil or fill it a bit to make flat.

Edited February 28, 2015 by ub3r_n3rd

[Pingo]

One of the virtues of a flatly sculpted eye is that the painter can choose to have the character looking in any direction, or focusing on something close or far away, or even be crosseyed or wall-eyed for effect. The painter can choose to paint the eye bigger or smaller.

 

If the eye is very emphatically sculpted the painter has to work harder if he or she has a different effect in mind for the eyes.

 

Sculptures do look better with illusionistically sculpted eyes. At least, the ones I have seen in museums with them look better.

 

But if the sculpture is intended to be painted, a flatter eye is kinder to the sorts of painters who like to play with expression.

[Adrift]

One of the virtues of a flatly sculpted eye is that the painter can choose to have the character looking in any direction, or focusing on something close or far away, or even be crosseyed or wall-eyed for effect. The painter can choose to paint the eye bigger or smaller.

If the eye is very emphatically sculpted the painter has to work harder if he or she has a different effect in mind for the eyes.

Sculptures do look better with illusionistically sculpted eyes. At least, the ones I have seen in museums with them look better.

But if the sculpture is intended to be painted, a flatter eye is kinder to the sorts of painters who like to play with expression.

Yes.

[SIGIL]

hmmm.... I think we are seeing two different objects as I never intend the " ball " to tbe the iris or pupil....that is the entire eye. So what you guys are thinking are pitted sclera are actually the pits at the very corners of the eye. I know that that does make paintign them more difficult but ( and this coudl be an entirely anti-productive assumption on my part ) that is the size that teh eye would be in a face the size that I sculpt. 

 

I have never really sculpted with a painter's brush in mind. I have always just sculpted what i thought looked good as a sculpt. That I understand coudl be the entire problem.

 

Just so I am absolutely certain where the problem is can you ptu a red dot on the problem areas that gave you so much difficulty in painting Rollo's eyes Cash.

 

And God forbid you think I am taking offense here because I swear on my hands I am not and never would. I want to be the best miniature sculptor EVAR and that means making changes to my technique to accommodate the reality of painting in this scale.

 

  Really let me have it when it comes to criticism I prefer to fix problems rather than ignore them. This goes for ANYTHING I am doign wrong. Scale proportions depth fo defintiion in the muscular anatomy ( which I DO think I have a bad habit of over doing. ) pose anything.

[ub3r_n3rd]

I'm very happy you are so open to our thoughts and constructive criticisms, Tre.

[SIGIL]

It is my Duty Sir!

[Adrift]

hmmm.... I think we are seeing two different objects as I never intend the " ball " to tbe the iris or pupil....that is the entire eye. So what you guys are thinking are pitted sclera are actually the pits at the very corners of the eye. I know that that does make paintign them more difficult but ( and this coudl be an entirely anti-productive assumption on my part ) that is the size that teh eye would be in a face the size that I sculpt. 

Ah, see that makes sense to my brain now. I'm looking forward to finishing The Bastard Hughbert with this knowledge!

[Brage97]

Ok, while we're on the product improvement topic:

 

Can you please add a small pin to the hands/wrists of the loose weapons so we can just drill a hole in the arm of the minis and just stick the hands in? It will give a much easier and better bond than pinning the minis ourselves :-)

Edited March 1, 2015 by Brage97

[Talae]

Ok, while we're on the product improvement topic:

 

Can you please add a small pin to the hands/wrists of the loose weapons so we can just drill a hole in the arm of the minis and just stick the hands in? It will give a much easier and better bond than pinning the minis ourselves :-)

Definitely this. I wish all minis had pins already.