Pingo Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Far be it from me to ruin anyone's fun, but it would probably be easier just to buy the brush-on Dullcote. I bought some brush-on dullcote. It's vapors are toxic (should have read up on it before buying it). So you will have the same (air) issue with using it as you would a spray. I have a GM who claims his bathroom has a good ventilation fan and does all of his spraying in the bathroom in the winter. Liquitex gloss varnish has worked great for me on metal and bones. No stickiness. I haven't tried the mediums. The matte varnish has no problems with stickiness, but it isn't as matte as reaper's sealer. So I use liquitex's gloss varnish for the protective coat and then water down reaper's sealer to make the mini matte. If I want anything to be glossy (like eyes), I go back in with Liquitex because it is easier than trying to not matte small areas. Liquitex gloss and matte varnish mix together, so you can choose how glossy you want something, which is nice Note that Liquitex's varnish is not removable according to the website. (Unless you get their more expensive soluvar stuff.) I haven't tried to remove it, so I don't know what this means for the mini exactly. I figure it bonds to the paint in such a way that removal would damage the paint. I'm unsure if this also means simple green won't work or will have a tough time. Liquitex gloss varnish is not the same thing as Liquitex gloss medium. Ditto matte, and this also applies to brands like Golden. The varnishes harken back to when acrylic paints were solvent-based instead of water-based ( a dark time indeed, known as the 1950s). Solvent-based acrylics dry way tougher than water-based acrylics, but use some nasty aromatic hydrocarbons. The matte varnishes are actually pretty matte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haldir Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 When you turn a spray can upside down and spray, you are expelling the propellant, not the solvent. This de-pressurizes the can. Useful to do before disposing of the can for safety reasons. Correct. I mis-typed that & didn't notice it till today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Chaoswolf Posted April 8, 2015 Author Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2015 Far be it from me to ruin anyone's fun, but it would probably be easier just to buy the brush-on Dullcote. I bought some brush-on dullcote. It's vapors are toxic (should have read up on it before buying it). So you will have the same (air) issue with using it as you would a spray. I have a GM who claims his bathroom has a good ventilation fan and does all of his spraying in the bathroom in the winter. Liquitex gloss varnish has worked great for me on metal and bones. No stickiness. I haven't tried the mediums. The matte varnish has no problems with stickiness, but it isn't as matte as reaper's sealer. So I use liquitex's gloss varnish for the protective coat and then water down reaper's sealer to make the mini matte. If I want anything to be glossy (like eyes), I go back in with Liquitex because it is easier than trying to not matte small areas. Liquitex gloss and matte varnish mix together, so you can choose how glossy you want something, which is nice Note that Liquitex's varnish is not removable according to the website. (Unless you get their more expensive soluvar stuff.) I haven't tried to remove it, so I don't know what this means for the mini exactly. I figure it bonds to the paint in such a way that removal would damage the paint. I'm unsure if this also means simple green won't work or will have a tough time. Liquitex gloss varnish is not the same thing as Liquitex gloss medium. Ditto matte, and this also applies to brands like Golden. The varnishes harken back to when acrylic paints were solvent-based instead of water-based ( a dark time indeed, known as the 1950s). Solvent-based acrylics dry way tougher than water-based acrylics, but use some nasty aromatic hydrocarbons. The matte varnishes are actually pretty matte. So the varnishes might be a better option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingo Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Far be it from me to ruin anyone's fun, but it would probably be easier just to buy the brush-on Dullcote. I bought some brush-on dullcote. It's vapors are toxic (should have read up on it before buying it). So you will have the same (air) issue with using it as you would a spray. I have a GM who claims his bathroom has a good ventilation fan and does all of his spraying in the bathroom in the winter. Liquitex gloss varnish has worked great for me on metal and bones. No stickiness. I haven't tried the mediums. The matte varnish has no problems with stickiness, but it isn't as matte as reaper's sealer. So I use liquitex's gloss varnish for the protective coat and then water down reaper's sealer to make the mini matte. If I want anything to be glossy (like eyes), I go back in with Liquitex because it is easier than trying to not matte small areas. Liquitex gloss and matte varnish mix together, so you can choose how glossy you want something, which is nice Note that Liquitex's varnish is not removable according to the website. (Unless you get their more expensive soluvar stuff.) I haven't tried to remove it, so I don't know what this means for the mini exactly. I figure it bonds to the paint in such a way that removal would damage the paint. I'm unsure if this also means simple green won't work or will have a tough time. Liquitex gloss varnish is not the same thing as Liquitex gloss medium. Ditto matte, and this also applies to brands like Golden. The varnishes harken back to when acrylic paints were solvent-based instead of water-based ( a dark time indeed, known as the 1950s). Solvent-based acrylics dry way tougher than water-based acrylics, but use some nasty aromatic hydrocarbons. The matte varnishes are actually pretty matte. So the varnishes might be a better option? I tend to not like them because they need to be thinned with strong thinners like turpentine. Thinking about it, that might just be a personal idiosyncrasy and nothing particularly to count against them. They are removable, unlike waterbased acrylic finishes, but again one has to use a pretty strong solvent and I'm not sure I would want to remove the varnish but not the paint from a mini. If they are used one should have seriously good ventilation, on the order of 100 cubic feet of air replaced per minute, and also wear a NIOSH approved respirator with an organic vapor (*not* a dust) cartridge, and skin protection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireElemental Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Far be it from me to ruin anyone's fun, but it would probably be easier just to buy the brush-on Dullcote. I bought some brush-on dullcote. It's vapors are toxic (should have read up on it before buying it). So you will have the same (air) issue with using it as you would a spray. I have a GM who claims his bathroom has a good ventilation fan and does all of his spraying in the bathroom in the winter. Liquitex gloss varnish has worked great for me on metal and bones. No stickiness. I haven't tried the mediums. The matte varnish has no problems with stickiness, but it isn't as matte as reaper's sealer. So I use liquitex's gloss varnish for the protective coat and then water down reaper's sealer to make the mini matte. If I want anything to be glossy (like eyes), I go back in with Liquitex because it is easier than trying to not matte small areas. Liquitex gloss and matte varnish mix together, so you can choose how glossy you want something, which is nice Note that Liquitex's varnish is not removable according to the website. (Unless you get their more expensive soluvar stuff.) I haven't tried to remove it, so I don't know what this means for the mini exactly. I figure it bonds to the paint in such a way that removal would damage the paint. I'm unsure if this also means simple green won't work or will have a tough time. Liquitex gloss varnish is not the same thing as Liquitex gloss medium. Ditto matte, and this also applies to brands like Golden. The varnishes harken back to when acrylic paints were solvent-based instead of water-based ( a dark time indeed, known as the 1950s). Solvent-based acrylics dry way tougher than water-based acrylics, but use some nasty aromatic hydrocarbons. The matte varnishes are actually pretty matte. So the varnishes might be a better option? I tend to not like them because they need to be thinned with strong thinners like turpentine. Thinking about it, that might just be a personal idiosyncrasy and nothing particularly to count against them. They are removable, unlike waterbased acrylic finishes, but again one has to use a pretty strong solvent and I'm not sure I would want to remove the varnish but not the paint from a mini. If they are used one should have seriously good ventilation, on the order of 100 cubic feet of air replaced per minute, and also wear a NIOSH approved respirator with an organic vapor (*not* a dust) cartridge, and skin protection. I think we are talking about different products. The liquitex varnish I use (and have been talking about) is this stuff: You can see the health and safely sheet PDF here. It has no known health issues, which of course isn't an guarantee. Only recommended safety gear is gloves. The bottle does say not to thin it, so I don't bother and it hasn't cause me issues with the gloss. (Can't remember if the matte had clouding issues or not.) The container says the vehicle is acrylic polymer emulsion which means little to me in terms of safety and thinning. Perhaps that means something to you? I did check the Soluvar Gloss Varnish health and safetly sheet which very toxic and may be what you are thinking of? Liquitex markets it at their professional varnish. Costs a lot more too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingo Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I think we are talking about different products. The liquitex varnish I use (and have been talking about) is this stuff: You can see the health and safely sheet PDF here. It has no known health issues, which of course isn't an guarantee. Only recommended safety gear is gloves. The bottle does say not to thin it, so I don't bother and it hasn't cause me issues with the gloss. (Can't remember if the matte had clouding issues or not.) The container says the vehicle is acrylic polymer emulsion which means little to me in terms of safety and thinning. Perhaps that means something to you? I did check the Soluvar Gloss Varnish health and safetly sheet which very toxic and may be what you are thinking of? Liquitex markets it at their professional varnish. Costs a lot more too. (Facepalm) You're right. I was confusing different products. I'm sorry. I think I'm going to go get a lot of sleep now and have lots of coffee tomorrow morning. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireElemental Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 So the varnishes might be a better option? I think the short answer to that is yes. Longer answer based on what people have said: We have a couple people (me included) who have been able to use Liquitex varnish without issue. (The one I'm using should cost about $10-15 for an 8oz bottle. Avoid their Soluvar varnish as it is toxic and requires ventilation.) Gloss works great. Nothing useful was said about the matte except that it isn't as matte as some other products. This may not be a problem depending on what type of finish you want. Mediums can be used as a protective coat although that isn't the intent of the product. Two people think that Liquitex's gloss medium gets sticky, but aren't completely sure. If you don't want it a medium, it seems like varnish would be the simpler choice. I should note that Liquitex's has a couple of gloss mediums, so it is possible one type was sticky and the other is fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I use the Liquitex Varnishes and their matte medium. The Gloss Varnish dries nice and clear, and I've never had a problem with clouding. The Matte Varnish has to be applied thinly (note: this is different from thinning the varnish, which I would not do as it turns it into a Satin Varnish) or it will dry cloudy. Important note: The Gloss Varnish will remain tacky on BONES. Until you cover it with the Matte Varnish. Then it's fine. They also make a High Gloss (or Ultra Gloss, or something like that) varnish. I have not tried this one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djizomdjinn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I use the Liquitex Varnishes and their matte medium. Wait, so do you: a) Use the matte medium as matte varnish? b) Use the matte medium as matte medium? c) Use the matte vanish as matte varnish? d) None of the above? Because as mentioned before, medium and varnish are two very different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireElemental Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I use the Liquitex Varnishes and their matte medium. The Gloss Varnish dries nice and clear, and I've never had a problem with clouding. The Matte Varnish has to be applied thinly (note: this is different from thinning the varnish, which I would not do as it turns it into a Satin Varnish) or it will dry cloudy. Important note: The Gloss Varnish will remain tacky on BONES. Until you cover it with the Matte Varnish. Then it's fine. They also make a High Gloss (or Ultra Gloss, or something like that) varnish. I have not tried this one. Your gloss varnish ends up tacky on Bones? Mine hasn't. Wonder what the factor is for if it ends up tacky or not. My humidity is around 30-45% in the winter and we keep the house at 67°F. I also wait 24 hours after I last paint the mini to apply it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmorse Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 There is very little difference between the water base acrylic varnish and the mediums. Specific to Liquitex the matte varnish has less matting in it than the matte medium. That's pretty much it. Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't know the product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djizomdjinn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Well, yes, a water-based acrylic varnish is essentially the same as a water-based acrylic medium. Both are basically water-based acrylic paint with no pigment in them. There are many other types of varnishes other than acrylic, though (alkyd, lacquer, enamel are most relevant to minis), and most of those offer far more protection as a topcoat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Sundseth Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I'm not sure that's really true. Future, which is just acrylic medium, is a very hard and very protective top coat. Is it harder than alkyd resin or whatever? Beats me, but for our purposes I doubt there is a significant difference in protection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djizomdjinn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Future dries hard for me, while acrylic medium dries significantly softer. Most of my experience is with matte mediums though, and matte finishes are less protective than gloss ones. Some scale modellers recommend matte spray (for appearance) over gloss (for protection). Water-based stuff tends to be water-soluble, after all... I like having the extra water protection from oil-based topcoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Sundseth Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Acrylics are not generally water soluble once dry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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