Fulfilling Reaper Bones 3: Post-Kickstarter Discussion

[Smokestack]

Yeah, I can just hear all the screams of "You are starting a new KS and I haven't gotten my stuff...!!!" even though that is not the case... Reading takes longer than outrage...

[Bane Of Humanity]

I can only imagine how well an update with "Bones IV is coming soon" would go with the backers of Bones 3 who haven't been paying much attention...

Hate press is still press lol

[dreamakuma]

I'd like to clarify, I'm still buying bones while eagerly waiting on bones. Just trying to perhaps relay my feelings on the matter.

I've no anger or bitterness on the matter of delays. I'm sure bones 3 will be worth the wait. Just trying to get some clarity.

[Smokestack]

dreamakuma, you did not come across that way. Its ok to be critical of something. You sound like a reasonable person. At least to me.

[Crowley]

Reasonableness on the internet?

 

 

[Reaperbryan]

 

In early November we said our latest information was there would be a shipment in mid-December which would include Core Sets, and Expansion Sets. It is Mid-December. That shipment is confirmed to be on the ship crossing the Pacific Ocean, just like we said.

 

There are products which were not included with this shipment, including all of the Optional rewards. We are working on getting the details for that shipment now.

 

I do hope this doesn't come across as rude, but I have a question if I may ask.

 

In update #86, October 14th:

"Where we are now is that production on the models that go into the Core Sets is complete, and they are still collating and assembling those sets from the completed models. They are not finished with all of the other rewards, which is why these rewards are not assigned to a Container."

 

With the recent december update, does that mean core sets were not finished during the October update? Am I misunderstanding this?

 

 

 

I am not sure how to reply without this sounding rude, so I'm just going to  try to be clear.

 

In October, they were done manufacturing (which means making the 2,370,000 little models that are inside a core set). We even said at that time they were not done collating and assembling the core sets.

 

In this most recent shipment, they sent us the core Sets and other items as indicated, meaning that sometime between mid-october and now they finished the collating of those sets, as well as the expansion sets and other parts.

 

Nothing in this most recent update even hinted that core set models weren't manufactured in October.

 

Again, i don't mean to be rude, but a Core Set is like a cake. Just because in October the eggs, oil, flour, and baking soda were all manufactured didn't mean the cake was done - there was still the part where they had to put all of those 2,370,000 models into the boxes.

[Reaperbryan]

 

 

There are products which were not included with this shipment, including all of the Optional rewards. We are working on getting the details for that shipment now.

 

 

It would have been nice if this was posted in the update. It's useful info for backers. Many backers don't know (or want) to come to this forum to hunt down clear information.

 

I have no idea how on earth this is not clear. Seriously.

 

The update specifically says that we are working on getting the details for the next shipment. 

 

How is that not posting that there is a next shipment?

[Reaperbryan]

 

Right, yes. Sorry most of the comments about the New Year have been about the chinese new year. 

 

As for Bones IV, of course they're looking forward... they're a business. I'm sure they have several different projects in the pipeline that they're looking forward to Including their anniversary year celebration, ReaperCon, and yes Bones IV, as well as whatever support they're giving for the new Conan game (CROM), and a bunch of stuff we can only guess at right now... It would be stupid and irresponsible for them to NOT  be looking forward to future projects.

I understand that fully, but the announcement and the fact I had to ask for a confirmation means backers aren't getting a full story. Yes a company must always look forward.

However it's also understandable that perhaps backers may feel forgotten about when this info is not properly relayed to them. I understand that the company down in Texas has to do something to make money. But a clarity that they are still focusing on their backers would be comforting.

 

I appreciate Reaper's insistence on updating backers, but from a kickstarter perspective it feels like we're getting half the story. Bones 4 is in the works as Bones 3 has yet to reach anyone's hands. Bones 4 is planned for Spring of 2017 whilst Bones 3 is in the air. We know china is the issue, but backers may want to be 100% on that rather than be left to speculation.

 

It would have been nice to see that bones 4 confirmation on kickstarter and be told it has no interference with bones 3 rather than have to confirm it.

 

We will be happy to announce Bones IV officially to backers when we have more information. Until we have an estimated Launch window, there's very little point, IMHO

[CorallineAlgae]

 

 

 

There are products which were not included with this shipment, including all of the Optional rewards. We are working on getting the details for that shipment now.

 

 

It would have been nice if this was posted in the update. It's useful info for backers. Many backers don't know (or want) to come to this forum to hunt down clear information.

 

I have no idea how on earth this is not clear. Seriously.

 

The update specifically says that we are working on getting the details for the next shipment. 

 

How is that not posting that there is a next shipment?

 

 

Reread my post. I did not say that the update should to tell people you were working on another shipment. I said it would've been useful to have added the info you posted here in the update. Nowhere in the update is the current situation stated as clearly as "There are products which were not included with this shipment, including all of the Optional rewards. We are working on getting the details for that shipment now.". That was really helpful, but it wasn't anywhere in the update. Does that clarify it for you? 

[Thes Hunter]

 

Right, yes. Sorry most of the comments about the New Year have been about the chinese new year. 

 

As for Bones IV, of course they're looking forward... they're a business. I'm sure they have several different projects in the pipeline that they're looking forward to Including their anniversary year celebration, ReaperCon, and yes Bones IV, as well as whatever support they're giving for the new Conan game (CROM), and a bunch of stuff we can only guess at right now... It would be stupid and irresponsible for them to NOT  be looking forward to future projects.

I understand that fully, but the announcement and the fact I had to ask for a confirmation means backers aren't getting a full story. Yes a company must always look forward.

However it's also understandable that perhaps backers may feel forgotten about when this info is not properly relayed to them. I understand that the company down in Texas has to do something to make money. But a clarity that they are still focusing on their backers would be comforting.

 

I appreciate Reaper's insistence on updating backers, but from a kickstarter perspective it feels like we're getting half the story. Bones 4 is in the works as Bones 3 has yet to reach anyone's hands. Bones 4 is planned for Spring of 2017 whilst Bones 3 is in the air. We know china is the issue, but backers may want to be 100% on that rather than be left to speculation.

 

It would have been nice to see that bones 4 confirmation on kickstarter and be told it has no interference with bones 3 rather than have to confirm it.

 

 

 

I think part of the reason why it feels like half the story, is because we are getting half the story from China. No it doesn't make sense that assembly and sorting of core sets, and manufacture and assembly of the expansions would take 1 1/2-2 months. However, it did take exactly as long as their partners said it would take in October, so I see this as an encouraging sign.

 

The way it has gone for the past 2 other Kickstarters it seems to have been like this:

China "Everything's fine, we are on schedule.^#"

Repear "Awesome."

Later

Reaper "I thought everything was fine, when are we getting the Ship tracking number?"

China "Soon^tm"

Reaper "Not good enough."

China *gives somewhat accurate estimate*

Reaper "Too all the backers, Sorry, we have to wait, Don't know how long, but here is most recent Estimate for next container."

After waiting

Reaper "China confirmed this next container is on the water, don't know when the last ones will hit."

The Backers "OMG this isn't going to ship forever!"

A short time later

China "Everything is done now."

 

 

So once things start moving, in the past things really start moving. Don't know if it's just lead time for jobs scheduled ahead of Reaper's jobs, and that's why everything moves 'at once', or if the assembly and packaging causes everything to be 'batched'. Whatever it is, I have hope that we will hear that the last containers are on the water before the Chinese New Year. 

 

# It is my understanding that it doesn't matter who you are, what language you speak, or how detailed of questions you ask/try to nail them down on. China will tell you what you want to hear until the deadlines you thought were there have passed. 

[ctsteel]

Regarding the backers who are getting confused or claiming that not all info is provided or clear, it may be that the information that is inferred or not directly stated is not clear for them. For example from posts above where there was confusion re the options, while the info shared re the core set assembly and packing/sending was stated and accurate, if the status of options (made but still being packed) is not explicitly stated then it is left to inference and 'reading between the lines'. Which is fraught with risk around inferring correctly, language fluency differences etc.

 

As an option to help with that, what about a basic infographic or grid chart showing status of each main group in the kickstarter rewards.

 

For instance (pure made up examples and using text only, please excuse any poor layout)

Group Manufactred Packed Sent Received

Core set. Y. Y. Y. Y

Expansion 1. Y. Y. Y. N

Expansion 2. Y. 50% N. N

 

Etc

 

This sort of approach is easy to digest, and you can use a level of graphics or deeper detail as you prefer. It wont stop the bigger complainers around timing buut will have an ability to let all viewers see overall status at a glance.

Edited December 20, 2016 by ctsteel

[dreamakuma]

Ok, part of the info I was looking for was cleared up.
It can take months to pack these miniatures up before shipping them out overseas.
That info helps when looking at the entire options left to do.

That would be amazing ctsteel.

 

 

 

 

There are products which were not included with this shipment, including all of the Optional rewards. We are working on getting the details for that shipment now.

 

 

It would have been nice if this was posted in the update. It's useful info for backers. Many backers don't know (or want) to come to this forum to hunt down clear information.

 

I have no idea how on earth this is not clear. Seriously.

 

The update specifically says that we are working on getting the details for the next shipment. 

 

How is that not posting that there is a next shipment?

 

 

I think this is in reference that all the optional rewards are unfinished. The recent KS update wasn't clear about what was left, but that something was left. To find this out in detail you'd have to be on these forums.

 In update #89 November 18 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-bones-3-the-search-for-mr-bones/posts/1741538
"There are still unreceived Options, including Ma'aldrakar and many of the others, but we will have over 80% of the inventory in hand!"

On this thread I found this, I'm going bold and highlight where I learned something here that may have been useful to see in the recent update.

 

 

In early November we said our latest information was there would be a shipment in mid-December which would include Core Sets, and Expansion Sets. It is Mid-December. That shipment is confirmed to be on the ship crossing the Pacific Ocean, just like we said.

 

There are products which were not included with this shipment, including all of the Optional rewards. We are working on getting the details for that shipment now.

 

[SamuraiJack]

I don't think there's any way to win that argument since you really have no idea how many total containers there will be anyhow

[nakos]

Kickstarter has made Chinese manufacturing too transparent and yet not transparent enough. A little information is a dangerous thing.

[Smokestack]

I am at the point where delays are just ruining kickstarter for me. I will continue to back Reaper cuz they are pretty good, but that may be all I do on kickstarter.

 

I do think though that as long as your backers are being polite or at least not outright rude, and you are sitting on a 4 month, 6 month delay then it is your responsibility to answer any questions and do so with the customer service that should be standard practice. I understand that it is frustrating repeating the same answers, especially if that answer is "we don't know" but when you let that frustration show in your answer the people asking start getting frustrated too