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Reaper Bones 3: Post-Kickstarter Discussion


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I just dropped in after reading this thread and seeing the more civilised conversation going on here.

 

I didn't support Bones 1 or 2, but I watched their progress. They both ran over the initial estimates, so I was expecting the same for this one.

I am looking forward to getting the minis, but not getting upset because they are late.

I do understand people's frustration in the Kickstarter comments, however, it gets a little out of perspective sometimes.

 

One thing I think Reaper should do is drop the two-week update cycle. Expectations and tempers rise up like the froth on mug of Bugman's Ale over the 14 days.

I think you should use the bi-weekly update to showcase minis, but just give the information about shipping whenever you have it. 

- just a thought for Bones 4.

 

On another note, I have been reading around the other forums here after joining. It looks like a great community. 

I have bought stuff here before, but never ventured into the forums. I think I will be sticking around. 

 

Welcome to the boards, Dwarf-Lord (man, I'm always going to hear "In their halls of stone" after that name).  The members and the mods keep this place fairly civil.  I hope you will enjoy it here.

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Welcome Dwarf Lord. The KS comments as I hav described before are just one long "ARE WE THERE YET?" complaint. I ask them once what do they hope to gain.... best I could garner is they want to complain. :upside:

 

These forums, on the other hand, are a great place to keep track of ALL KSers, learn new skills, see how others paint and generally find out whats happening in Reaperworld.... :;):

 

AJ

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Welcome, Dwarf-Lord!  ^_^

 

Reaper does, in fact, do extra updates if there's significant information to share.  There just hasn't been so far.  Definitely there will be an extra update when fulfillment is about to start.  Whether there are extra updates to say things like "the last container is on the water" and "the last container cleared customs" will likely depend on how close they happen to a scheduled update. 

 

I almost wish that for their next Kickstarter they switch to one update per month.  Not because I don't enjoy reading them more often, but because it might be less stressful for Bryan.  Give the comments section time to cool down, etch. 

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I generally disagree.  They should make clear that updates may not include meaningful progress information, but a Kickstarter creator should never be silent for too long.  I've been part of too many Kickstarters where the creator only shared when there was new information, and the experience was indistinguishable from those where the creator just took the money and ran (not the Reaper would do that, of course.)  But from a backer's perspective, especially a backer who may not have a lot of experience with Reaper, a creator should never 'go dark.'  

 

Heck, I'd consider weekly, then make half of them one picture and 'Progress continues, but no meaningful changes to our last update have occurred."  It would change expectations, but keep people aware that Reaper was still there and still reaping along.

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 That said, I hope they will address how they plan to avoid the delays in the future by the time another Kickstarter launches.

 

 

I sort of have to agree with this. While I personally can wait for fulfillment (have 20 minis already) and at least I know it's in process, not just some nebulous "someday" like some other kickstarters, I'm surprised how far off estimates were this time. Bones 2 ended up being if I recall 4-ish months late? So I don't know why the planning folks at Reaper then promised the same promise-time they had for Bones 2. What made them think Bones 3 would be faster to fulfill than Bones 2? 

 

In my real world job I've noticed our customers and executives always seemed to think the 2nd or 3rd time around we could finish a project faster than the first time. But really, you've got more sustaining production going on the 2nd time around, so probably fewer resources, and very likely you decided to be more ambitious. I don't know why people think everything will always get faster and better. But it should also be noted I went to the Scotty school of engineering where you tell your Captain it'll take twice as long as it really will then he thinks you're amazing for getting it done in less time. I would recommend that approach to Reaper. If Bones 3 takes 18 months to fulfill, don't promise 12 months for Bones IV. Promise 18 and if it happens faster people will be happy it fulfilled ahead of time.

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by the way dwarf-lord "20" minis is the number we all have.  In goblin (and forum) math this is the correct number of minis to own.  Even if what you have is 2 painted PCs and a sprue of bones1 rats, that's still 20. Or you have been wargaming for 30 years and have multiple armies in a variety of genres, and scales.  it just makes things easier.   

 

currently my outstanding Kickstarters are Bones3 and Kingdom of Death- whose shipping scheduled to last until 2020), so apparently quick fulfillment is not something I prioritize. 

I want the Kewl stuff and am willing to wait. 

Edited by Evilhalfling
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I think over-estimating timelines is dangerous.

 

The factory may have clients shopping around who will pay hefty premiums to finish production. Meanwhile, the factory can see the posted deadline is 6 months later than the deadline they received. Plenty of time to insert a project. Add in the Chinese cultural tendancy to be late and only give good news and Reaper would still be late...possibly the very scenario this time.

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First time posting in this thread, but that's because until recently I've avoided the kickstarter comments and looking at kickstarter in general. I'm of the opinion that bi-weekly updates may be too many when it comes to something like this that have a lot of front-end wait time while things like molds are made and initial production gets started up. I think that, especially early on, a single update per month that largely showcases different minis in the set is a better way to go. Throw out additional updates as time goes by and schedules get updated. Then when things get near the end, like they are now, go to a two-week update schedule depending on the actual overseas shipping schedule.

 

I also think it would be better for Reaper, and get a lot of the complainers to just shut up, if they vastly overestimate delivery time. I've been told that despite the Kingdom Death kickstarter's delivery date of 2020, they actually expect to get everything shipped out by late next year. They just gave themselves a huge buffer period in case anything goes wrong. So if for Bones 4 Reaper gave a delivery estimate of "2021" and then actually delivered in 2019, then people wouldn't be complaining about late delivery. And they can even justify the drastic change in delivery estimate between all the other KS and Bones 4 because of how every other one has run late. I really doubt that their manufacturer is going to look at the Kickstarter delivery date and say "Well, we can just not do anything for two years and no one will care" if Reaper's contract with them says 2019 delivery. They don't know why they're manufacturing it, they're just given a manufacturing contract that says "Make these, in this quantity, by this date."

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First time posting in this thread, but that's because until recently I've avoided the kickstarter comments and looking at kickstarter in general. I'm of the opinion that bi-weekly updates may be too many when it comes to something like this that have a lot of front-end wait time while things like molds are made and initial production gets started up. I think that, especially early on, a single update per month that largely showcases different minis in the set is a better way to go. Throw out additional updates as time goes by and schedules get updated. Then when things get near the end, like they are now, go to a two-week update schedule depending on the actual overseas shipping schedule.

 

I also think it would be better for Reaper, and get a lot of the complainers to just shut up, if they vastly overestimate delivery time. I've been told that despite the Kingdom Death kickstarter's delivery date of 2020, they actually expect to get everything shipped out by late next year. They just gave themselves a huge buffer period in case anything goes wrong. So if for Bones 4 Reaper gave a delivery estimate of "2021" and then actually delivered in 2019, then people wouldn't be complaining about late delivery. And they can even justify the drastic change in delivery estimate between all the other KS and Bones 4 because of how every other one has run late. I really doubt that their manufacturer is going to look at the Kickstarter delivery date and say "Well, we can just not do anything for two years and no one will care" if Reaper's contract with them says 2019 delivery. They don't know why they're manufacturing it, they're just given a manufacturing contract that says "Make these, in this quantity, by this date."

That's funny, because one of the reasons that I avoided Kingdom Death was precisely because they gave a delivery date of 2020.

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Unruly. I don't think they would get as many backers if they quoted a delivery of 2 extra years. Its one of the reasons I skipped Kingdom death (money being the other reason :down:

 

Bones 2 raised less money than Bones 1. Bones 3 raised less than Bones 2. Add extra shipping time perception on top of that and I don't think that is conducive to a good kickstarter.

 

Then if something happens on top of that... People are people and will complain no matter what. I don't think less information or updates will help with that. If anything it lets people jump to their own conclusions and fuel the same in others. Regular updates, regular presence is essential.

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