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Reaper Bones 3: Post-Kickstarter Discussion

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Maybe throwing out a delivery estimate of 4 years is overkill, but I think you guys understand what I'm saying. At the very least, they should look at how long its taken Bones 3 to deliver and put their estimate at Bones 3 + 6 months. So, since Bones 3 is taking almost 2 years to deliver because of setbacks and delays, then for Bones 4 they should throw the estimated delivery at at least 27 months, and probably closer to 30 months. Then, if it only takes as long as Bones 3 people will be happy with early delivery, and if it takes longer than Bones 3 then people can't complain that Reaper "hasn't learned anything from their previous kickstarters being late" the way that they are over in the comments now.

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If I recall correctly, Reaper did include a buffer of several months to their estimated delivery time for Bones 3, and then added a little more on top of that, just in case. It will take me some digging to find where that was actually stated, if that is wanted.



--OneBoot :D

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I also think it would be better for Reaper, and get a lot of the complainers to just shut up, if they vastly overestimate delivery time. I've been told that despite the Kingdom Death kickstarter's delivery date of 2020, they actually expect to get everything shipped out by late next year. They just gave themselves a huge buffer period in case anything goes wrong. So if for Bones 4 Reaper gave a delivery estimate of "2021" and then actually delivered in 2019, then people wouldn't be complaining about late delivery. And they can even justify the drastic change in delivery estimate between all the other KS and Bones 4 because of how every other one has run late. I really doubt that their manufacturer is going to look at the Kickstarter delivery date and say "Well, we can just not do anything for two years and no one will care" if Reaper's contract with them says 2019 delivery. They don't know why they're manufacturing it, they're just given a manufacturing contract that says "Make these, in this quantity, by this date."


there is no way all the KoD is going to be ready for late next year.  The core game and reprints sure, that's even whats on the timeline.  But they don't have even computer renders for some of the models, stuff added during the kickstarter had 0 art.  

please don't adopt this style. 

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If I recall correctly, Reaper did include a buffer of several months to their estimated delivery time for Bones 3, and then added a little more on top of that, just in case. It will take me some digging to find where that was actually stated, if that is wanted.



--OneBoot :D


Bones 2 fulfilled October 2013 with a 1st wave shipper date of October 2014. Actual fulfillment didn't happen until February 2015. So they promised 12 months and it took 16 months. Bones 3 fulfilled in July and promised 1st wave in September, so promised 14 months. Actual will be...21 months maybe? My point is if last time it took 16 months to fulfill, you shouldn't assume you can do it faster than that this time around. That's all. Also wouldn't be a bad idea if your estimate landed at the beginning of a year rather than at the end. People will be upset they didn't get minis by Christmas but fewer people will care about the difference between January and February for instance.

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Kickstarters are an an investment at the ground floor of a project.  you suffer along with the producer over delays and shipping problems.  that's why the KS offer significant savings.  you will note that KS runs that are close to completion and offer higher security, also offer a much lower discount.  Its a risk/reward based system and i wish those who didn't understand that would stop trying to use it as a store.  It isn't and it never will be.  Worse, the more people who invest, past an specific price point, the lower the chance of a timely completion.  its just a fact of life and i wish that the people out there with issues would get over it.  I am sure if Reaper could snap their fingers and have the material appear they would. 

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 Also wouldn't be a bad idea if your estimate landed at the beginning of a year rather than at the end. People will be upset they didn't get minis by Christmas but fewer people will care about the difference between January and February for instance.


This is a great point, actually.


FWIW, fulfillment timeline was one of the deciding factors in me not backing Kingdom Death, too. I also primarily game for Pathfinder, so not having minis in the appropriate scale was a non-zero factor.

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I just dropped in after reading this thread and seeing the more civilised conversation going on here.


I didn't support Bones 1 or 2, but I watched their progress. They both ran over the initial estimates, so I was expecting the same for this one.

I am looking forward to getting the minis, but not getting upset because they are late.

I do understand people's frustration in the Kickstarter comments, however, it gets a little out of perspective sometimes.


One thing I think Reaper should do is drop the two-week update cycle. Expectations and tempers rise up like the froth on mug of Bugman's Ale over the 14 days.

I think you should use the bi-weekly update to showcase minis, but just give the information about shipping whenever you have it. 

- just a thought for Bones 4.


On another note, I have been reading around the other forums here after joining. It looks like a great community. 

I have bought stuff here before, but never ventured into the forums. I think I will be sticking around. 



The two per month cycle, In my opinion, as the author of the updates, is just about perfect. It's frequent enough to let backers know we're still alive, and still playing attention. It's not so frequent as to feel spammy (like weekly updates would be). It's not so infrequent as to cause confusion - once a month updates are maybe just not frequent enough, lots of the KS projects I back the creators forget their update when they say they're going to do it, because it's just infrequent enough. They get an update out 1-2 weeks late pretty often, which leads to even more panic and negativity than we experience.


Again, that's my opinion, based on me doing these for Reaper since 2013 and having backed about 50 projects or so myself. Although I'm fairly sure my opinion lines up reasonably well with "Reaper's Opinion", since it's what we continue to plan for in each successive project.


Yes, there's LOTS of "nothing has changed". But that would be the case in any frequency, except the much-reviled "we'll post updates only when something changes" frequency. I'd rather share "nothing has changed" and receive bad press than post nothing.


As it happens, though, we're entering the Second exciting time, update-wise. The first Exciting Time was when production samples and prototypes began to appear, and we had awesome new pictures to share every single time. The Second Exciting Time is when I get to start inundating people with facts and knowledge they need to be ready for everything.


Another important note, we have learned, you cannot silence the complainers. Shipping beginning? Somebody will complain that this is a bad week for a parcel that needs a signature, they're on a  business trip/vacation/in hospital/on Mars. Shipping delayed? Somebody will complain that that they planned their entire life around this one box and you've gone and ruined it. Shipping complete? Somebody will complain that they never even knew it had started and hadn't filled out their PM correctly and now they won't get their rewards at all. Prototype arrived? Somebody will complain that the color is off, or that the prototype is not as cool as this other model form another company, or that they wanted to see the Prototype for X not for Y. 


If they're complaining, it means they're still passionate about the product. Take a look at some of the projects I've backed where the creator fell off the face of the Earth 3 years ago and the comments section isn't angry, it's just dead. Nobody cares. And that, honestly, would be far worse. 

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Do other big miniature Kickstarters have the same kind of complaints?  Reaper's KSs are the only big miniature KSs I've followed.


I've yet to back any KS, aside from a couple of very very small ones, which did not have negative comments to some degree. It happens. People can get quite passionate about what they backed, otherwise they wouldn't have backed in the first place. Almost worse, though, are the ones that have dragged on so very late that even the flames in the comments have burned out, and nobody is posting anything anymore, because they simply stopped caring. :unsure:


On-topic, I was pretty excited to read in the KS comments that Ma'al is/was unpacked yesterday and today! :bday:



--OneBoot :D

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