Delayed Super Dungeon Legends

[skippen]

Wow, just went to KS comments page.  Much has changed since I last went there.  What a mess.  This was always a mess before as it wasn't ready to go when it went (rules-wise), and now, I have no idea if I will actually get it.  They have been reliable every other time I have KS with them, but, well, wow, things have fallen.

[redambrosia]

On 7/19/2018 at 9:51 AM, odinsgrandson said:

Quick question- does bankruptcy protect a company against their Kickstarter promises?  Because, if NJ isn't taking out bank loans, then there's not a whole lot that it would do for them.  And remember, bankruptcy does not mean the end of a business (although it is horrific PR, but a lot of companies get out of it).  

I certainly hope that they don't go under, though it does look like their expenses have gone over.  I certainly hope they can save their company (to be honest, I'd be out a lot more than just the one KS worth of stuff).   The company has just been going on for too long without regular releases (due to their KS projects) and I'm sure that's hurt them a lot.

It seems like their first priority is to partly deliver on all of their Kickstarters, to garner some good will, and they seem to be trying to support their company with smaller releases in the mean time.  I suspect that a few Kickstarter items that I'm most excited for will be a low priority (the Mutant Chronicles crossovers, for example).

 

I actually think that a number of their recent moves have been smart ones.  The Masterclass line is pretty great (although you have some folks swearing to not give them a dime, others are happy to buy cool minis from them).  The Ninja All Stars crossover is also really good (and adds value to product that is just sitting in their warehouse right now).  They also have Doomseeker coming out soon (a card game that is probably relatively cheap to produce, but with really nice art and the Warhammer setting attached to it).

 

They've definitely dug themselves into a hole, but to me it looks as though they're actually digging themselves out of it (slowly, and with Super Dungeon Legends at the bottom of the priority list).

I'm definitely optimistic. When it comes down to it, I really just want their minis, and I'm willing to wait for them. I'm even willing to buy other minis from them while I wait. If they are in financial straits, swearing them off won't help.

[skippen]

Yes, it won't help, but I really don't want to give them more money when I have already "donated" a large sum at this point, and, well, it seems they spent it but I didn't get what I expected out of it. I have done 3 KS with them, and this is the first I am having doubts with now.  This one was always problematic as they weren't ready when it kickstarted, and they spent too long on the rules, and now costs have changed.  I will hope, but to send them more money now is very unlikely.

[Asuranshadow]

My recollection is, they charged us shipping for wave 1....when we now see it hadn't even been produced.... Then the mass silence until they wanted to do the resin with Paizo. Much as I like their minis, that was super shady.

[Kuroneko]

Apparently this is Soda Pop/Ninja Divisions response to State Attorney General about the current state of the kickstarter-

 

(Its a pdf, by the way)

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Iu7HOs3mkd6GCve9LqHT_9Q5rdghW5xY/view?fbclid=IwAR1SrieVM5rhAhunIeGZwzPbJFhZoeCjdqba4p4MZ5v9-Sif819MYxQHXQ8

 

If it's true, I think our chances of getting our pledges are slim to none

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Kuroneko

[SamuraiJack]

I wonder if Poots can reclaim the crossover from Relic Knights and put it out on his own for backers.. 

[redambrosia]

17 hours ago, Kuroneko said:

Apparently this is Soda Pop/Ninja Divisions response to State Attorney General about the current state of the kickstarter-

 

(Its a pdf, by the way)

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Iu7HOs3mkd6GCve9LqHT_9Q5rdghW5xY/view?fbclid=IwAR1SrieVM5rhAhunIeGZwzPbJFhZoeCjdqba4p4MZ5v9-Sif819MYxQHXQ8

 

If it's true, I think our chances of getting our pledges are slim to none

 

 

 

I'm not sure I read it the same way as you do. It's a response to a legal action, yeah? They're still trying to fulfill their obligations, including partnering with another company to help get their cash flow going so they can fulfill those obligations to us. At least, that's how I read it. 

[Kuroneko]

From what I understand, the document only exists because a fellow backer ("Zach" on the kickstarter comments section) actually contacted the Attorney General with concerns about the project.

 

A couple of things bother me about the funding section, namely that the shipping costs and the Late Pledge money wasn't listed anywhere. They made sure to list shipping in the "money we need" section, so where did that money go? Late Pledging was still open in March. Also, why did they use the Kickstarter funds to cover their running costs for 3 years? If I knew that the money was going to pay rent then I probably wouldn't have pledged at all :(

 

Another thing, the pledge manager was done via the Sodapop Webstore, which no longer exists. If you try going there, you get diverted to the Ninja Divsion site, where your Sodapop account is not recognised. Why haven't they transfered over the accounts? Do they even have our info?

 

I wish I could be optimistic, but at this point they haven't officially communicated with us since June, and even that was pretty much "you'll get info when we have some". Before that, they posted a lot of fluff updates that were nice, but in retrospect it looks like they were just playing for time :( I have no time for any of the unacceptable stuff that some of the angry backers are suggesting, but there are a lot of us that just want honest info from the company.

 

On a personal note, I'm more than a bit worried that their Starfinder Kickstarter is only chugging along (slowly) because Paizo is involved. I haven't heard of any overseas backers getting anything from that one. As an overseas backer I'm more than a little concerned about how this might affect this project :(

 

One last thing, I'm not that optimistic about them being bailed out by another company. Their fanbase isn't what it used to be, sadly because of what they've been doing the last couple of years. I would love to see someone buy their IP,  but I really don't see it happening. I really hope I'm wrong

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Kuroneko

[Orlando_the_Technicoloured]

I'd imagine the late pledge money isn't addressed as this is a complaint about the KS, so it's just not relevant In that context

 

(much as it is relevant to those involved although they will have far stronger, already established legal remedies foe non delivery of a pre ordered item)

 

and as for the KS money being used to cover running costs all KS projects should include a proportion of the target to pay their wages & other necessary expenses, they're part and parcel of getting whatever it is made, what would be more dubious would be paying staff in the company not involved with the project but doing something else, or paying all of the companies bills (eg rent/power) rather than an appropriate proportion and the letter isn't detailed enough to tell us that (I wouldn't be surprised if this had gone wrong at least to some extent