Jump to content

Chaoswolf

GW bringing back specialist games

Recommended Posts

I did see the upcoming Dwarf team for Bloodbowl is "Fyreslayer" style...sadly. They were my least favorite of the redesigns.

They are kind of Rackham-ish aren't they? Has anybody checked to see if there is any overlap of sculptors?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I think it might have been mentioned here already, but if not, it's worth remembering that Mordheim was originally set in the past anyway. So bringing it back using the Olde World as a setting wouldn't/shouldn't be too much of a stretch.

 

Of course, if GW sees it that way is another story.

Remember, this is also a company that decided that the way to push a new edition of a game that had been around for thirty plus years was to blow up the setting....

 

The Auld Grump, which worked so well for D&D 4e, and the New World of Darkness....

 

*EDIT Don't know how it bears on this discussion - but Silver Tower, the relaunch of Warhammer Quest, is outselling Age of Stinksmore at the local GW Warhammer store.

Edited by TheAuldGrump
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Well, I think it might have been mentioned here already, but if not, it's worth remembering that Mordheim was originally set in the past anyway. So bringing it back using the Olde World as a setting wouldn't/shouldn't be too much of a stretch.

 

Of course, if GW sees it that way is another story.

Remember, this is also a company that decided that the way to push a new edition of a game that had been around for thirty plus years was to blow up the setting....

 

The Auld Grump, which worked so well for D&D 4e, and the New World of Darkness....

 

*EDIT Don't know how it bears on this discussion - but Silver Tower, the relaunch of Warhammer Quest, is outselling Age of Stinksmore at the local GW Warhammer store.

 

 

I find this unsurprising in the extreme. A dungeon crawl boardgame is outselling a skirmish game that suddenly became Mad Max with necromancers and magic Space Marines? Who cooda seen THAT coming?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Well, I think it might have been mentioned here already, but if not, it's worth remembering that Mordheim was originally set in the past anyway. So bringing it back using the Olde World as a setting wouldn't/shouldn't be too much of a stretch.

 

Of course, if GW sees it that way is another story.

Remember, this is also a company that decided that the way to push a new edition of a game that had been around for thirty plus years was to blow up the setting....

 

The Auld Grump, which worked so well for D&D 4e, and the New World of Darkness....

 

*EDIT Don't know how it bears on this discussion - but Silver Tower, the relaunch of Warhammer Quest, is outselling Age of Stinksmore at the local GW Warhammer store.

 

From talking to the guys at the game shop a town away from me, they haven't restocked any AoS stuff since the initial launch. He said that GW calls them up every so often trying to push a reorder, and they keep telling them that they're still sitting on original launch stock over a year later. I've read reports that AoS somehow managed to make itself a fairly decent part of GW's sales, larger than Fantasy had been in years, but if that's true then the buyers have got to be the most silent majority ever.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you will pardon my jumping into this conversation, I got into their games via 40k, but I quickly fell in love with their '2nd line' games. I always liked Fantasy, but as I like so many of the races, it was hard for me to get into the playing of Fantasy. I like the fluff for the Empire, Skaven, Lizardmen, Dwarfs, and Khemri. I finally bought into it on 7th Ed. A group started up a once a month game campaign. Since they were and hour and half away I figured it would be cool. Just as I was getting into it, they started bring out 8th Ed. At $75 for the rule book and knowing I would have to buy a whole new army book, I had to quit. I have through the last couple of year bought every 7th Ed. army book save one, as well as some of the older books that I figured would be cool to use as well. Heck I even bought the old Skirmish rule book thinking it would help me get into and get others into playing WFB. I love Blood Bowl, Mordhiem (though I have only ever played against myself), Warmaster the Old Space Marine game (that went on to be called Net Epic), Battlefleet Gothic, and to a lesser degree Necromunda. 

I tell you all this, because what got me into their fantasy line was the fluff, pure and simple. Yes it was a stretch to find a 'reason' for the Lizardmen to play against the Khemri, but it didn't really matter. So I am left wondering why they 'flushed the fluff'. Yes, I got upset with the company when they stopped sell their Specialist Games minis, and then stopped supporting them. Anyways, I see that i have rambled on long enough. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you will pardon my jumping into this conversation, I got into their games via 40k, but I quickly fell in love with their '2nd line' games. I always liked Fantasy, but as I like so many of the races, it was hard for me to get into the playing of Fantasy. I like the fluff for the Empire, Skaven, Lizardmen, Dwarfs, and Khemri. I finally bought into it on 7th Ed. A group started up a once a month game campaign. Since they were and hour and half away I figured it would be cool. Just as I was getting into it, they started bring out 8th Ed. At $75 for the rule book and knowing I would have to buy a whole new army book, I had to quit. I have through the last couple of year bought every 7th Ed. army book save one, as well as some of the older books that I figured would be cool to use as well. Heck I even bought the old Skirmish rule book thinking it would help me get into and get others into playing WFB. I love Blood Bowl, Mordhiem (though I have only ever played against myself), Warmaster the Old Space Marine game (that went on to be called Net Epic), Battlefleet Gothic, and to a lesser degree Necromunda. 

I tell you all this, because what got me into their fantasy line was the fluff, pure and simple. Yes it was a stretch to find a 'reason' for the Lizardmen to play against the Khemri, but it didn't really matter. So I am left wondering why they 'flushed the fluff'. Yes, I got upset with the company when they stopped sell their Specialist Games minis, and then stopped supporting them. Anyways, I see that i have rambled on long enough. 

You are not alone in that regard.

 

Many (possibly most) of the armies getting played in our Kings of War campaign started out in Warhammer....

 

By the way - if you want to use your WHFB armies, but want to avoid both the new rules and the new fluff, there are alternatives.

 

First is Kings of War - which has an added supplement for using the discontinued Warhammer armies in Kings of War.

 

Warning - the supplement is pretty awesome - the Tomb Kings equivalent is The Empire of Dust, and can actually win battles.... Possibly my favorite army in the game. Ratkin are the Skaven - started out as slaves for the Abyssal Dwarfs. Brotherhood are the Brettonians... sort of (and are another cool army - but have the fluff that is the most changed, with ties to water elementals.) League of Rhordia is Empire, again, sort of. Closer to the Hanseatic League than to the Holy Roman Empire. And Salamanders - lizardmen tied to the element of Fire.

 

The other possibility is 9th Age, I will provide a link later - a rebuilding of the older editions of Warhammer. Looks good, but since I am already playing Kings of War, I have not tried it yet.

 

The Auld Grump

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they flushed the old fluff, because it was TOO generic. Why buy Empire state troops when you can buy metal historicals at half the price? Or Brets? Or dwarfs? Some of the other armies were more unique in their appearance (like HE and DE), and some armies were just so gorgeous you didn't want to use substitutes (like WE). Also I think they looked at the success of Warmahordes and decided the ONLY way they can be successful in the future is with a skirmish game with OTT fluff and setting. I tremble in fear at what they might do to WH40K when its turn comes up. Ironically, I think the AoS rules would suit it more (perhaps with a bit more depth, esp buildings, vehicles, psychic powers, etc), but I'm afraid they'll go crazytown with it and make the background ridiculous rather than pleasantly OTT.

 

Damon.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I tremble in fear at what they might do to WH40K when its turn comes up.

Damon.

That day is fast approaching if internet rumormongers are to be believed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that AoS might have been a final spasm by the old management team - the former CEO and his cronies had been consistently taking the wrong lessons from events for the better part of a decade.

 

In particular - the head of IP did not know the difference between a Trademark, a copyright, and a patent.... And, specifically, that third party parts are legal, and have been for quite some time. (Ask Midas about their mufflers, for example.) Changing the names of elves, orcs, and etc. in no way makes it harder for third parties to make parts for them.... But somehow that was the message that they took after spending millions on a a lawsuit that got them $20,000 from the party that they sued.

 

But at least they haven't sued anybody lately....

 

Meanwhile - Ninth Age can be found at http://www.the-ninth-age.com/ as a free download.

 

The Auld Grump - while the wife is away the Grump will... miss her a whole lot, actually.... She is going to her Circle, her survivors meeting and then will be taking her grandmother to the airport. (Leaving me with the dog and the cats... who are great listeners, but not so great conversationalists.)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems I miss led you, so I make my deepest apologies. I still want to play WFB, but only 7th Ed. I have looked at KOW and T9A,both nice games, it is just I have spent a lot of time and money on buying every book for 7th Ed. I am only missing one of the Army books, The Beastmen book. As far as minis go, I only about 2,000 of Lizardmen, @ of the old army boxes, about 1,00 empire mostly old Battle Master Minis, about 500 Dwarfs, from the Battle of Skull pass. That does NOT include the Orcs and Goblins from the Battle Masters game and the Battle of Skull Pass box set. I know I should sell the books, gods know I will probably never find anyone willing to play with me. I have thought about trying to get someone to play via Battle Chronicle. even though it is old, it still works from me and I have yet to find an comparable replacement. one of the ways I could play some of the specialist games. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you will pardon my jumping into this conversation, I got into their games via 40k, but I quickly fell in love with their '2nd line' games. I always liked Fantasy, but as I like so many of the races, it was hard for me to get into the playing of Fantasy. I like the fluff for the Empire, Skaven, Lizardmen, Dwarfs, and Khemri. I finally bought into it on 7th Ed. A group started up a once a month game campaign. Since they were and hour and half away I figured it would be cool. Just as I was getting into it, they started bring out 8th Ed. At $75 for the rule book and knowing I would have to buy a whole new army book, I had to quit. I have through the last couple of year bought every 7th Ed. army book save one, as well as some of the older books that I figured would be cool to use as well. Heck I even bought the old Skirmish rule book thinking it would help me get into and get others into playing WFB. I love Blood Bowl, Mordhiem (though I have only ever played against myself), Warmaster the Old Space Marine game (that went on to be called Net Epic), Battlefleet Gothic, and to a lesser degree Necromunda. 

I tell you all this, because what got me into their fantasy line was the fluff, pure and simple. Yes it was a stretch to find a 'reason' for the Lizardmen to play against the Khemri, but it didn't really matter. So I am left wondering why they 'flushed the fluff'. Yes, I got upset with the company when they stopped sell their Specialist Games minis, and then stopped supporting them. Anyways, I see that i have rambled on long enough. 

 

I very much liked Fantasy, and had substantial Bretonnian, Orc/Goblin, and Undead armies.

 

Then the new edition came out, and suddenly, Undead was two different armies, and I couldn't field a full army of either. Meanwhile, I was told my Goblin Doom Divers were obsolete, and needed to be replaced with newer, more expensive models. And I noted that the people at the local venue who could and did shell out for all new armies, all new rules sets, all new this and that... those were the ones that tended to stick around.

 

Between that and the fact that a powerful single figure cost four times or more what a regular foot soldier did, despite containing the same amount of metal? Plainly, I was drifting out of GW's target demographic. So I quit drifting and turned on the motor...

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they flushed the old fluff, because it was TOO generic. Why buy Empire state troops when you can buy metal historicals at half the price? Or Brets? Or dwarfs? 

Thing is, though, that I don't think that the generic fluff was the reason people were buying other figures.  It was the price.  When you combine their high prices with the rise of the internet and thus an easier means for people to find economical substitutes, I think it was bound to happen that people moved away from official figures. Especially since GW's standard reaction to just about everything was to raise prices or change the rules.  Sales going well? Raise the price!  Sales slumping? Raise the price! Customers complaining about the price hikes? Change the rules!

 

My friends and I spent the entire 90s buying WFB figures instead of other manufacturer's stuff, simply because it was the best value in terms of money and time. Sure, there were other figure lines that were a better value in terms of cost, but they weren't so easy to find and obtain in volume as just buying the official figures was.  When that changed, and it became easier for small companies to compete, GW's constant price hikes did them no favors. 

 

I think another problem GW had was trying to treat WFB and 40K pretty much the same in terms of sales strategies.   Fantasy has always had the distinction of a lot of generic fluff and figures and difficulty creating truly unique IP in, while Sci-Fi or Sci-Fantasy has always been easier to create unique IP in.  GW could have recognized that, and adjusted their sales strategies for WFB to compensate. 

 

Anyway, back to topic. Now that Blood Bowl is out, any word on what is up next?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I came at GW from the opposite direction than a lot. For many people it was their gateway into miniatures. For me it was Ral Partha and Reaper, and then I discovered GW. Silver Tower looks kind of interesting, but the price point for me is pretty prohibitive. Especially since there are other miniature based board games out there I'm at least as interested in, with a much lower price.

 

Mordheim has intrigued me since I first heard about it, but I'd probably be more inclined to just get the old rules and go from there.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I came at GW from the opposite direction than a lot. For many people it was their gateway into miniatures. For me it was Ral Partha and Reaper, and then I discovered GW. Silver Tower looks kind of interesting, but the price point for me is pretty prohibitive. Especially since there are other miniature based board games out there I'm at least as interested in, with a much lower price.

 

Mordheim has intrigued me since I first heard about it, but I'd probably be more inclined to just get the old rules and go from there.

Yeah, I will be using old rules as well. The issue is that, there are several versions of each game and makes it hard for newbies to not just find a rules set, but decide which one is the 'most current'.

I believe Warmaster has like 3, Mordheim and Blood Bowl has 2 each. Necromunda only has the one that I know of, maybe two. I am not sure about the rest of the games as they are not on my list of games I want to play. Course I am sure I missed a few versions. I have played mostly by myself on these games. No one lives very close to me and I have never had many minis to play with others.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×