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Chaoswolf

GW bringing back specialist games

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Well...when G.W. announced that they were dropping the Specialist Games, they also announced destroying all the molds for the games. That was the final straw for G.W. & I. Lack of anything resembling business ethics is one thing. Destroying the creative works of some very talented people is quite another.

 

...and so we had actually just recently forged ahead on trying to start a Mordheim campaign, trying to source rules and such.

If your looking for an ongoing support system for Mordheim, try Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum:

 

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/

 

I'm DeafNala over there by the way.

 

I wonder how true the destruction of the molds actually is. Although molds can be replaced the question would really be did they destroy the masters used to make those molds? Many, many, many years ago when the Martian Metals production facility burned down there were questions if the masters were really destroyed in the fire or not. Although those minis have never re-emerged none of us would have been surprised at a new company popping up having "found" the masters. Forest Brown (yes, real name) was known to do some shady things.

Edited by Heisler
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<Voice of Mod>

 

We're not going to get political about Donald Trump or any other candidate in this thread. Further discussion of any candidate of any party or ideology will result in locking this thread, there will not be any further warnings.

 

This is not the appropriate forum nor thread for matters of national or international politics. This discussion here is a recent announcement about a potential return of some beloved niche properties by one of the industries most controversial companies, both adored and despised.  Continue that conversation, please.

 

</Voice of Mod>

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Etherial - I'm not sure what the "Apple Pie" reference is, but I gave you a like anyway.  :;):

 

Malefactus - Knowing the quality of your work, I bet you have some pretty kick-elf Mordheim terrain. I might have to head over to that site and search, unless you have links.

 

Forumites as a whole - I can't quite grok why GW would destroy the molds or masters. I'm not challenging the veracity of this statement, but rather, trying to figure out a way that this makes any sense. It's one thing for a company to decide that they're discontinuing a product line; but it seems like an irrational decision to make sure that they will never be able to reintroduce that product line in the future (at least, without recreating the molds or making entirely new sculpts).

Edited by Arbiter10
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... :unsure: ...so, right, I have a few BattleFleet Gothic spaceships. A bunch of Ork ones as I recall.

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<Voice of Mod>

 

We're not going to get political about Donald Trump or any other candidate in this thread. Further discussion of any candidate of any party or ideology will result in locking this thread, there will not be any further warnings.

 

This is not the appropriate forum nor thread for matters of national or international politics. This discussion here is a recent announcement about a potential return of some beloved niche properties by one of the industries most controversial companies, both adored and despised.  Continue that conversation, please.

 

</Voice of Mod>

 

You will have no further transgression on my part.

 

When I do my T.B.M.F. Mod voice, it's all CAPITALS...like Death in the Pratchett novels.

 

Malefactus - Knowing the quality of your work, I bet you have some pretty kick-elf Mordheim terrain. I might have to head over to that site and search, unless you have links.

 

Forumites as a whole - I can't quite grok why GW would destroy the molds or masters. I'm not challenging the veracity of this statement, but rather, trying to figure out a way that this makes any sense. It's one thing for a company to decide that they're discontinuing a product line; but it seems like an irrational decision to make sure that they will never be able to reintroduce that product line in the future (at least, without recreating the molds or making entirely new sculpts).

I pretty much have all my stuff posted here in the Conversions, etc. Section under The Last Hurrah Project. It's actually shorter than the threads I have on Tom's. I'll P.M. you the T.B.M.F. links.

 

It doesn't make any sense to moi either. You would think that a company that so vigorously defends its I.P. would guard their physical property with equal zeal.

Edited by malefactus
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Sorry, how could they not be under the direct control of GW? Plus the Middle Earth stuff wouldn't last very long under the auspices of the Specialist Games since that contract is just about up and I seriously doubt that GW is going to renew it.

From what I understand, the Specialist Design Studio will be a part of the Forge World division, and won't have any input from the main GW design studio. So the people who were responsible for writing the Age of Sigmar rules, for example, won't have anything to do with any rules updates for Epic. It sounds like a case of "as long as you're making money, you can do what you like".

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Forumites as a whole - I can't quite grok why GW would destroy the molds or masters. I'm not challenging the veracity of this statement, but rather, trying to figure out a way that this makes any sense. It's one thing for a company to decide that they're discontinuing a product line; but it seems like an irrational decision to make sure that they will never be able to reintroduce that product line in the future (at least, without recreating the molds or making entirely new sculpts).

My guess is that they said it (whether or not they did it) as a way to shut up vocal fans they felt weren't making them any money. The Specialist Games were never one of GW's big money makers, but each of the games did tend to have a vocal fan base. That fan base hammered them for years about their decisions regarding the SGs. I don't think GW ever really understood that even if vocal fans don't spend their money, they do help make you money with their enthusiasm, because enthusiasm is infectious. Hopefully this attempt to bring back the specialist games is finally recognizing that, but I have to admit that I'm now cynical enough to believe that everything GW does is just a straight up money grab.
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Etherial - I'm not sure what the "Apple Pie" reference is, but I gave you a like anyway.  :;):

Back when you could only purchase whole pies, apple pie was the #1 pie in America by a mile. But between refrigeration and preservatives, it is now trivial to get a slice of just about any pie you want. And suddenly, apple pie is no longer king. It was the pie everyone could agree on when they were forced to share. Apple Pie is the consensus pie. It's the beige pie.

Edited by etherial
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... I have to admit that I'm now cynical enough to believe that everything GW does is just a straight up money grab.

 

As a corporation, I have a hard time thinking of anything as anything other than a money grab. I hate to break it to you, but Reaper wants to make money from your purchasing habits also. I pay my mortgage with the money from the transactions of the people on this board (and I am *very* grateful!).

 

The questions is not whether or not they are doing something to get some of your money, the question is whether what they are offering is worth the money they want to get from you. And that answer will be different for every consumer.

 

Me? I want to see new sculpts and new rules for Epic and Mordheim. Others will want to see the old rules and old sculpts, and new versions will only serve to elf them off. 

 

So yeah, it's a money grab. And if they do it right, many people will cooperate. And that's capitalism, and exactly how it's supposed to function, so I don't say it like it's a bad thing at all.

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I think you are selling Reaper & yourself short, Bryan. You seem to be interested in the survival of the industry/craft as a whole. That isn't a G.W. thing. 

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While I have a certain affection for GW games and minis of the 80s and 90s, I would not want them to just reissue those products. To remain vital any game line must change and innovate. For example, I disliked D&D 4e, but it served to help define what D&D should (and really should not) be.

 

GW is a publicly held corporation and so the officers and management have a legal and very real duty to maximize shareholder value. They can be taken to court if the don't. So while I don't like some (well, a lot) of what they are doing, I cannot in good faith ascribe any of it to malicious intent. Contrast that with other, not publicly help corporations which can focus growing the hobby as well as profit.

Edited by DocPiske
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Me? I want to see new sculpts and new rules for Epic and Mordheim. Others will want to see the old rules and old sculpts, and new versions will only serve to elf them off.

 

New buildings. Or building kits. There's an idea. Or third party building kits with hard plastic building accessories like brickwork corners, and door frames, and windows...

 

All those fiddly details.

 

Made in stiff, hard Bonesium. Is Black Bonesium a possible thing?

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I hate to break it to you, but Reaper wants to make money from your purchasing habits also. I pay my mortgage with the money from the transactions of the people on this board (and I am *very* grateful!).

There is a difference between growing your business while making money, and flat out grabbing for money, though.

 

GW appears to look at everything and say "How can we market this product line to maximize short term profits?"

 

Reaper, OTOH, appears to look at everything with a more long term approach and say "How can we market this product line to maximize long term profits?"

 

I have this argument over and over again with the "salesman" at the company I contract to. Last year, he sold equipment direct to a customer for a net profit of about $80k, and he was very proud of himself that he made the company an extra $54k by selling direct. It was a great short term profit boost to the companies bottom line, certainly better than the $24k they would have made by selling through the distributor.

 

But he failed to consider the long term consequences of that short term profit - the distributor who would have sold that equipment for the company was just about to place five orders, but because of the direct sale, decided to go with a competitor. Beyond that, they've committed to using the competitor's equipment until sometime in 2017, which probably cost the company I contract to another 12-18 orders, which translates out to another $120-150k in profits. Furthermore, the distributor has refused to service that direct customer, which has already led to another $10k worth service costs for us annually, and will probably become an ongoing cost for years. The "extra" $54k he made that quarter is already over a quarter gone in terms of real quantifiable costs, and I have strong indications that they lost at least double that in lost sales as well. And because of the contract the distributor signed with our competitor, it's probable the company lost out on a lot more potential sales they had a shot at.

 

And despite all the evidence I can show him over this situation, he still goes out and tries to end run the distributors to "boost the numbers". It's pretty sad when an independent contractor cares more about the long tern health of the company than their primary salesman does.

 

GW is just like our "salesman", while Reaper realizes that maximum profits are not always about making as much as you can right now, that oftentimes building the market and customer relationships are a key part of making money.

Edited by kristof65
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