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Chaoswolf

GW bringing back specialist games

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Yes! Kristof, that post is full of so much win! I agree that too much of what GW does is focused on the short-term at the expense of the long game.

 

Bryan, of course Reaper wants to be profitable. In a just system, a business fills a demand by making a quality product, customers are happy to pay a fair price for what they receive, and there is enough profit for employees (whether a sole proprietor, a large company, or anything in between) to earn a decent living. Reaper does this with class and poise (well, at least as far as quality product and pleasing customers; I can't speak for certain about how Reaper treats its employees, although, from what you've mentioned on the forum, Bryan, you've at last had an opportunity to go from employee to part owner, so that's a good sign.).

 

Reaper is an excellent company in terms of quality of product and customer service, and there's a level of engagement with your customers that GW doesn't have. Seriously, have you ever been on the GW forums on their website? Oh wait, there isn't one. Reaper is able to leverage all of this into continued long-term success, and this is a key differentiator between Reaper and GW.

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As much as I dislike many of GW's decisions over the last ten years or so, Forge World seems to be regarded as much more customer-friendly than its parent company. They get a surprising amount of autonomy as I understand it, and their involvement in the project is what's giving me hope that the old Specialist Games might be in good hands. I don't doubt that things will be expensive, but FW at least has a reputation of putting out a good product.

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Citadel and early GW was great.

 

Later you couldn't even collect an army for real.

As soon as you started collecting..somewhere along the lines, the rules were changed, your units are now obsolete, oh please buy these new ( more expensive) one.

 

They kept doing that. And the sculpts became less and less nice too IMHO.

 

Now Reaper churns out nice and great minis.

They keep doing that it seems.

And there is a great customer service.

 

Also Reaper doesn't frown on showing other miniatures in their site.or in their games.

 

GW doesn't let you compete in a tournament if your models aren't 100% GW.

 

I know where I spend my money these days. Bryan can pay his mortgage...

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Could we not turn this thread into yet another rehash of what everyone thinks is wrong with GW as a business?  I'm not their biggest fan in that arena either but it gets really old having every mention of something they do devolve into a business analysis of them.

 

I'm actually pretty excited about the possibilities of a revived Specialist Games.  To me those games were some of their strongest offerings, purely as games.  And I'm pretty happy to see them get tacked onto Forge World since FW has lots of experience with supporting more niche items and growing interest in them.  I just hope the inevitable rules revisions are good or at least neutral.  Conversely, I do think rules revisions are necessary since many of these rules sets are old and could benefit from a modernization and streamlining.  And at least one, Inquisitor, would benefit from a ground-up rewrite to get it to a more coherent form, IMHO of course. 

 

On the subject of Inquisitor, I loved the 54mm models for it but the rules were a confusing mish mash scattered all over the place.  It also felt like they never really made a hard decision about it being either a wargame or a rpg.  While they came down pretty much on the wargame side, they kept too much of the looseness of an rpg on the scenario planning  and force building side.  I'ld like to see a new version of Inquisitor that works more like Necromunda.  Give me a game where I can design my Inquisitorial Warband, Deathwatch Killteam, Chaos Cult, Alpha Legion infiltrators, etc. and fight the hidden war of the Inquisition in a scenario based campaign much like you fight the gang wars of Necromunda in, well, Necromunda.

Edited by Erifnogard
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Depending on how this is handled this could be the best news we've had out of Games Workshop in a very long time. Note that there was no mention of any fantasy titles in the various rumours. No Mordheim. Blood Bowl is technically fantasy but it exists in it's own special little bubble.

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Citadel and early GW was great.

 

Later you couldn't even collect an army for real.

As soon as you started collecting..somewhere along the lines, the rules were changed, your units are now obsolete, oh please buy these new ( more expensive) one.

 

They kept doing that. And the sculpts became less and less nice too IMHO.

 

To be fair, when GW released the plastic boxes for core units in Warhammer Fantasy (around 5th Edition, I think), I thought they had started to turn around and really make sense.  Affordable core units (to encourage their use), and then metal figures for specialists, heroes, etc.  Brilliant and gamer-friendly!  Sadly, that didn't last...   :wacko:

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Citadel and early GW was great.

 

Later you couldn't even collect an army for real.

As soon as you started collecting..somewhere along the lines, the rules were changed, your units are now obsolete, oh please buy these new ( more expensive) one.

 

They kept doing that. And the sculpts became less and less nice too IMHO.

 

To be fair, when GW released the plastic boxes for core units in Warhammer Fantasy (around 5th Edition, I think), I thought they had started to turn around and really make sense.  Affordable core units (to encourage their use), and then metal figures for specialists, heroes, etc.  Brilliant and gamer-friendly!  Sadly, that didn't last...   :wacko:

 

 

Very true.

 

Now I would love to see some new Man 'O War ships and monsters and I would really like a Warmaster 10mm Army update. Maybe Beastmen?

 

But without wanting to sound pessimistic, GW has launched games and models before only to abbandon that completely and withdraw all support.

 

Warhammer Quest would be great.

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I wish everyone the best, and hope they really have given Specialist Games the autonomy it needs to thrive. I used to love Necromunda and Bloodbowl, back in the day.


Beyond that, I'll stay silent, except to say business is about networks, and generally, people who tend their networks (in this case suppliers, distributors, retailers, customers) succeed. Yes you have to do it at a profit, and I begrudge no-one a profit.

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Depending on how this is handled this could be the best news we've had out of Games Workshop in a very long time. Note that there was no mention of any fantasy titles in the various rumours. No Mordheim. Blood Bowl is technically fantasy but it exists in it's own special little bubble.

Well, the advert/flyer thingy rattled off the listed games and also said 'and more' so perhaps the fantasy titles are a little further down the line.

One can hope, anyways.

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I had forgotten about it, but actually GW did bring Necromunda back some years ago.  They rolled the rules into a new rulebook and released some new models (with interchangeable weapons, which I thought was a really nice feature for WYSIWYG figures).  I can only assume that support for it dropped off (again) at some point, though I couldn't say for certain since I didn't get to play it at the time.

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I'm kind of meh about the whole thing. And part of my problem is Reaper. 

I don't want to get into a big business analysis... hell, I don't understand Reaper's finances, nor do I need to, much less GW's... but the beginning of the end for me was when I played WH, and noticed that a pack of metal Skellies could be had for less than four bucks... but a single figure (Heinrich Kemmler, the Lichmaster, a powerful general)... sold for $8, although he had less metal in him than the skellies did. And this was in the days before Atlantis sank, when two bucks for one figure was considered pricy.

Eventually, GW lost my business entirely. I did not feel like a valued customer whose purchases were paying some Englishmen's rents and mortgages; I felt like a sucker who was being used and abused as far as he'd put up with, and if I bailed, well, peachy, plenty of other suckers out there, don't let the door hit you in the bahonkus on the way out, chump. This, as opposed to Reaper's apologies for raising prices due to metal costs, their attempt to slow the process down via cheaper alloys, and finally, their willingness to sell me classic figures in Bones for a couple of bucks each, concluding with Dragons Don't Share in Bonesium, as opposed to metal, thus making it feasible for me to own this classic behemoth, as opposed to being homeless, but owning a really nice piece of metal.

 

In a moment of weakness, a decade ago, I bought the new edition of Space Hulk... and noted that while it was supposed to be limited edition, their warehouses didn't seem to run short of copies, although the prices kept climbing. And sure enough, they recently came out with yet another printing. Limited edition, my hairy red expletive deleted.

I understand that no one is going to give me fun games and pretty miniatures for free. I understand that Bryan, among others, pays his mortgage and indulges his many unsavory habits with money I spent on miniatures. I don't begrudge him that. It's as good a business arrangement as any. Nor did I feel particularly taken advantage of, even before I met Bryan and the many other Reaper peeps; it was a company that made minis of satisfactory quality at prices I was willing to pay, is all. 

...as opposed to a company that attempts to sell individual styrene miniatures in blisters costing $25 or more... and then requiring me to assemble an army of said figures. Hell, even a skirmish group is more than I'm willing to pay for. And this is what makes me nervous about the return of Specialist Games... I liked Necromunda. Mordheim was okay. Blood Bowl was more of a beer and pretzels kind of game, lighthearted but fun. But what in ghod's name are they going to charge for the things, and what kind of changes are they going to try to pull once the games are in the hands of the gamers?

And naturally, they'll just never bring back Warhammer Quest.

GW is not my friend, nor do they wish to simply profit from my addictions; they just want to take pliers and an auger to my wallet until I scream for mercy, and/or give up in disgust. Ultimately, I don't wanna get my hopes up; they've disappointed me too often.

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Looking forward to seeing what they do with Mordheim.

 

While it would be nice to see the return of Warhammer Quest... last I heard, they had lost the graphics files for all of the tiles.

 

The Auld Grump

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I had forgotten about it, but actually GW did bring Necromunda back some years ago. They rolled the rules into a new rulebook and released some new models (with interchangeable weapons, which I thought was a really nice feature for WYSIWYG figures). I can only assume that support for it dropped off (again) at some point, though I couldn't say for certain since I didn't get to play it at the time.

Yeah, I remember that. They did three gangs in that style I think; Orlocks, Goliaths and Arbites. I have the Orlock set, and it's pretty cool.

 

Doc: I feel ya. I'd add to that list of grievances the "embargo" that stopped me from being able to buy their minis from the UK at what ended up being nearly half NZ retail price.

 

For me, I have most of the Specialist Games already, certainly all the ones I'd care to own. I'm excited about this for a couple of reasons though.

First of all, new minis means I can plug holes in my collection that I didn't get a chance to before; for Epic I have, for example, thousands of infantry, hundreds of tanks, and dozens of titans, but only about four flyers. Similarly, I only have the bare bones of a BFG Chaos fleet compared to my pretty complete Space Marine fleet, and I'd be happy to pick up new gangs for Necromunda (Scavvies in particular) or new teams for Blood Bowl.

The other reason I'm happy about the news is that it has the potential to increase interest in the games. It would be awesome if I could start playing games against people who have their own armies, maybe even get a campaign going.

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