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Dwarven Forge KS4

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I only got the chance to watch a small part of the video while getting dinner ready. I was hoping most to see the mountain pack...hopefully someone saves me some time and posts images somewhere.

 

I need to think long and hard about my pledge level. I went for Castle as a placeholder early on. I am now thinking of dropping down to a watchtower and a Rampart during the campaign plus Mountains and add ons during Pledge Manager. I just haven't done the math yet.

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Go to 1:53:30 to see the mountain pack

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy1M7FO30fw&feature=youtu.be

 

 

The mountain pack is a great set and IMO the DF team could have showed it off even better by first building two or three different builds and taking pictures then playing with it on camera.

 

I love the live streams but it is hard to build on the fly from behind a table when you do not see what the camera sees.

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His lack of interest on the different tile sizes worries me a lot more. To me, it is a huge deal, and very avoidable. Was it intentional? Was it his initial sculpts being slightly too big? Was it the factory making mistakes he did not catch? It seriously makes me wonder if he will do the same thing with KSIV and things will match up even worse. 

 

I made a city build last weekend that had KSI, KSII and KSIII pieces all together, and the size differences were obvious and annoying. 

 

Does anyone know if this has been addressed anywhere?  I watched Nate's video of the Necromancer Throne Room and at 1:21 he mentions the "scalegate" people and points to how he thinks there is a good fit with KS 1 pieces, but I don't see a good fit.  I see a gap.  And I see a gap in the KS4 photo gallery where you can see the lizardmen going up the stairs. 

 

it makes me think that KS4 is meant to be compatible with KS3 only.  And their lack of concern puts me off, because it feels like a deliberate decision to change the scale so that there is no backward compatibility, and moreover no compatibility with materials from other manufacturers.

 

Does anyone have any information?

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His lack of interest on the different tile sizes worries me a lot more. To me, it is a huge deal, and very avoidable. Was it intentional? Was it his initial sculpts being slightly too big? Was it the factory making mistakes he did not catch? It seriously makes me wonder if he will do the same thing with KSIV and things will match up even worse. 

 

I made a city build last weekend that had KSI, KSII and KSIII pieces all together, and the size differences were obvious and annoying.

 

Does anyone know if this has been addressed anywhere?  I watched Nate's video of the Necromancer Throne Room and at 1:21 he mentions the "scalegate" people and points to how he thinks there is a good fit with KS 1 pieces, but I don't see a good fit.  I see a gap.  And I see a gap in the KS4 photo gallery where you can see the lizardmen going up the stairs. 

 

it makes me think that KS4 is meant to be compatible with KS3 only.  And their lack of concern puts me off, because it feels like a deliberate decision to change the scale so that there is no backward compatibility, and moreover no compatibility with materials from other manufacturers.

 

Does anyone have any information?

 

Stephan replied to Scalegate yesterday in the DF forums in the thread titled "The Big Post on Scale Compatibility". Sorry can't direct link due to Reaper forum rules for commercial site links.

The first post in the thread documents just how large of a gap there can be when mixing sets. Sadly, the scale issue is driving me nuts the more I try to KS3 (mostly sewers) with KS1 tiles. Unfortunately there's nothing that can be or will be done about compatibility with previous sets, unless you have a time machine and could add someone with an engineering background onto the DF team from the beginning. His post does address what the plans going forward are though...

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His lack of interest on the different tile sizes worries me a lot more. To me, it is a huge deal, and very avoidable. Was it intentional? Was it his initial sculpts being slightly too big? Was it the factory making mistakes he did not catch? It seriously makes me wonder if he will do the same thing with KSIV and things will match up even worse. 

 

I made a city build last weekend that had KSI, KSII and KSIII pieces all together, and the size differences were obvious and annoying.

 

Does anyone know if this has been addressed anywhere?  I watched Nate's video of the Necromancer Throne Room and at 1:21 he mentions the "scalegate" people and points to how he thinks there is a good fit with KS 1 pieces, but I don't see a good fit.  I see a gap.  And I see a gap in the KS4 photo gallery where you can see the lizardmen going up the stairs. 

 

it makes me think that KS4 is meant to be compatible with KS3 only.  And their lack of concern puts me off, because it feels like a deliberate decision to change the scale so that there is no backward compatibility, and moreover no compatibility with materials from other manufacturers.

 

Does anyone have any information?

 

Stephan replied to Scalegate yesterday in the DF forums in the thread titled "The Big Post on Scale Compatibility". Sorry can't direct link due to Reaper forum rules for commercial site links.

The first post in the thread documents just how large of a gap there can be when mixing sets. Sadly, the scale issue is driving me nuts the more I try to KS3 (mostly sewers) with KS1 tiles. Unfortunately there's nothing that can be or will be done about compatibility with previous sets, unless you have a time machine and could add someone with an engineering background onto the DF team from the beginning. His post does address what the plans going forward are though...

 

Thanks I just went over and found that information.  It's the sewers that bug me the most -- you would think that of all the stuff in KS3 that would be what fit best with KS1 -- or at least that is what I assumed.  The height problem is the worst.  It just means I couldn't have confidence in KS4 no matters how enticing something looks.

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Basically the answer is that for around 18 years Dwarven Forge sculptors (Stefan and a few other people) sculpted pieces without verifying that each piece had the exact same foot print. I am not just talking about from set to set but even piece to piece in the same set. Even as DF was being considered the gold standard of resin terrain by some gamers they were not producing a product that was in any way exact. That same lack of exact foot print is present in the game tiles (dungeon tiles) from KS1 and the cavern tiles from KS2. One of the passage pieces for dungeons that was made during KS2 is likely the best example of the worst adherence to exactness. So DF had been in business for years and had two wildly successful KS with Stefan, past crew and present crew all merrily producing a product that was not exact.

Some unknown person must have realized the KS3 items were going to need to be exact (or at least more exact) due to the vertical builds and made sure they were. Likely an engineer not an artist, perhaps a factory engineer. But who ever it was they did not stop to consider back ward compatibility to 18 years of accepted inaccuracy.



I was/am annoyed that the sewer items are not the same foot print as the dungeon tiles.

I like the cliff items no matter what but it would be good to know how they look next to the caverns.

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.  It just means I couldn't have confidence in KS4 no matters how enticing something looks.

 

 

KS4 castle items will match KS3 items as they are part of the CBS system.

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I suggested on the DF forums that they should consider remolding the worst offenders of the scale issue (such as floor tiles and probably wall tiles), and just start selling those going forward. Compared to spending $1000-$2000 on a castle or city, spending $100-300 on replacing some KS1 or KS2 pieces with better scaled ones is not too painful - and that would only be done by those who are actually bothered by the scale differences. Many people don't care enough. They said something about digitally scanning sculpts in this KS4 to make sure the dimensions are good. It should be simple to scan the KS1 or KS2 sculpts (if the masters still exist) and just bump them up that little bit.

 

I think a small Kickstarter to fund just this change would be perfect. If it funds, then they know enough people care about the issue to bother doing anything about it. If not, then we just deal with the annoyance of gaps and not mixing certain things on some vertical builds. If molds cost around $10k each, I'd figure they need one to four molds. So a funding goal of $30k-40k sounds about right, and might very well be successful.

 

Regardless, I think Dwarven Forge should try to have smaller, more focused Kickstarters in the future which will hopefully not be overly daunting or expensive for potential new customers. There is a saturation point with terrain, since even the big spenders have finite storage space. Terrain is different than figures like Reaper's. Someone can buy a single $3 Bones miniature for a specific use in a game or whatever. Good luck spending $3 and finding much use for that one terrain tile. Modular terrain gets cooler and more interesting the more you have, and it requires a minimum amount to be useful at all. It's a bigger initial buy in and thus a smaller market.

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Also, it's not like anyone still doesn't want game tiles! I sure wish I could have bought two more sets back in DF's first KS!

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One of the things I like very much about the game tiles and cavern pieces (beyond their aesthetics, which are fantastic -- I love painting these pieces) is that they mix very nicely with various Hirst arts pieces I have that were cast in dental stone, and in resin.  I don't measure them or anything -- I just eyeball it and they all look great together.  I can line up 14 inches of all this stuff and it's neat and tidy and appeals to my OCD. 

 

And they all sit perfectly on the grid on the battle mat from Battle Systems, and they line up perfectly with the old Steve Jackson cardboard keep stuff I have.   

 

I like to mix things up and feel I'm free to use the material in whatever way I want.  Compatibility with other companies is fun!

 

So making bigger pieces would appeal to those who are into this KS4 stuff, but not to me.  Which is totally cool. 

 

Now, if somehow ran a Kickstarter for a modular castle made of stackable 2x2 pieces which were compatible with DF KS1 ....

 

Nah, that's a crazy idea.

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Also, it's not like anyone still doesn't want game tiles! I sure wish I could have bought two more sets back in DF's first KS!

Someone mentioned they had a couple of extra sets with SGs on the Facebook "DF fans/mods/etc" and I think it might have sold within the hour... definitely before I had a chance to even think about it. I really regret missing out on that KS. 

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Also, it's not like anyone still doesn't want game tiles! I sure wish I could have bought two more sets back in DF's first KS!

Someone mentioned they had a couple of extra sets with SGs on the Facebook "DF fans/mods/etc" and I think it might have sold within the hour... definitely before I had a chance to even think about it. I really regret missing out on that KS. 

 

I have purchased two sets on eBay (bought between KS2 and KS3) plus a Grand Staircase and a Diagonal Walls pack. If they ran a compatibility KS for previous stuff, I would definitely be in. Not so much because I need the compatibility, but because I would love to flesh out my collection to about 5 sets. (also, KS2 stuff had a number of add ons that I really wish I had grabbed during the KS and have yet to be able to justify buying on their site).

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I am finding it difficult to narrow in on which pledge works best for me. I was content without towers, but they are definitely cool. I am currently thinking Castle+Mountain Mega Pack+Motorized Drawbridge. The feeling of indecisiveness runs strong within me. I am definitely living up to my forum title.

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