fulfilling Stone Skull's 28mm Tabletop Gaming Miniature Furniture by Stone Skull Studios

[Dairoka]

I have a ridiculous fondness for furniture, and just sold some toys online, so I still have money hanging out in my PayPal account.  I have realized this is a dangerous combination.

 

I was feeling a lot better about SSS before I read all of this, but I'm still going to give him a shot and hope for the best.  I'm comfortable with spending $25, but I'm going for the $50 level for the SGs.  My desire for a Merchant Stall and "gypsy" wagon is worth risking an extra $25.  I hope everything goes well and works out for the guy.  Fingers crossed.

[Ravendas]

Yeah, I hope it all works out, it's just he really doesn't seem to have planned out the costs.

 

It looks like he's going to make something like 120 individual pieces, each of which needs to be printed on a high end printer (outsourced), and then those prints need to be made into a series of molds each (also outsourced), and then cast hundreds of times out of resin (also outsourced). That's not counting the free 10 or so minis cast in metal that he's also outsourcing that are included for free for every $50 you pledge... which is usually how much they cost on their own, not as a freebie.

 

The guy just seems right now to think that if he can make a 3d model of it, he will definitely create a mold of it, no matter how little demand for that piece is.

 

He really should have stuck to a solid group of like 20 gothic pieces for this first one just to make for a starter project, to make sure it all works well and comes together, before launching into a project this size.

 

Someone should get a quote from the company Valiant to see how much it would cost to have a single two part mold for resin made just to see how feasible this really is. Edit: Because maybe I'm the one terribly wrong here and these things are actually cheap to be printed on a high end printer, and then have multipiece molds made for them.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Ravendas

[ced1106]

Creator says the casting will be outsourced. 

 

Valiant resin casting: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=230453

 

Creator Stone Skull Studios about 2 hours ago

@Jev I am not casting them myself directly. One of the companies cast their own prints and the other has great familiarity with casting and have assured me that it wont be a problem. As for the exact model of printer, I do not know. Some of the master prints are en route and the prototypes are at Valiant for review in regards to modifications needed to ensure a smooth model.

Edited March 22, 2016 by ced1106

[zoroaster100]

I was getting an Ice Age Mammsls vibe from this (in that Kickstarter also the stretch goals got way too good to be true and the creator continued to reassure claiming the costs were taken care off and that they didn't even need to make money off the project because they were doing it to market themselves). So if you are putting in a small amount you don't mind losing, the way you buy a lottery ticket knowing really you are giving up that money on an impossible dream, fine. But if you are putting in a large pledge, think hard about the risk.

[ced1106]

Scott's pics from the 3D files:

 

[Ravendas]

That's a rather nice printer, those look good!

[Ronald X]

I was getting an Ice Age Mammsls vibe from this...

Yeah, same here.  Staying away.  There are a couple pieces I like, specifically the bath and dwarven bed, but I doubt this is ever going to fulfill.  Should I be wrong and this stuff all gets made, then I'll eat crow and pick up those pieces for retail price later, but I can't see this coming through with that many freebies.  Too good to be true = probably not true.

 

Just doing some quick math.. a $50 pledge right now is looking at around 80 pieces of resin scenery and almost 20 miniatures, with free shipping.  Yeah.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Ronald X

[DogBL]

I am going to go ahead a back this one. I have not had a bad experience with Kickstarter yet, and I found $40 last week. Why not see if this is the start of something or my first bad Kickstarter backing? That said I will be suprised if the pieces arrive by Christmas (as is Stoneskull Studios' plan as of now for my wave).

[Skarabx]

From the creator of this contentious project who just created this account in order to reply.

 

1. I have told people numerous times to follow their own instinct and have not tried to tell anyone otherwise.
2. I have never failed to admit that this is a bold and potentially risky thing.. 
3. I am quite aware of all the costs involved and the increased costs of time and resources of all the "free" stretch goals.
4. Mistakes? Oh hell yeah. A bunch. Never denied that.
5. Businessman? Nope. Never claimed to be. Oh and the information about my previous business and what have you are a bit inaccurate. MIS and DS only existed since 2010. Just caught that. Spent over 12 years in the printing business (including Kinkos and Offset printers) I admit I have made mistakes and failed in the past because I am being honest.
6. All my information is freely available on the net  https://www.facebook.com/Skarabx
7. Some of you are going to believe me and some of you wont. Honestly that is not my problem because nothing I say will convince you otherwise.
8. Sure am going to do this anyway. I just really thought it would be nice for some help and to kind of get people to jump in. It's going to happen anyway, according to me... but talk is cheap.
9. I encourage you to be skeptical and come to your own conclusions. How in the hell could anyone be upset over that?
10. You cancel your pledge because you have a bad feeling? Right on. Same as I have done a few times.
11. This is a risk that I never denied. I know what I am getting myself into and I know what to expect. People are always going to be leery of something that seems overly generous or somebody being unconventional or appearing to be doing something.. "idiotic".

Not defending nor offering excuse... just explaining.

 

Either way you stand... that is also your right and who am I to argue that?

 

In closing... if any of the people doing work for me, i.e. Casters pulls out or decides not to do business with me, I either cancel funding or refund. Simple as that. Kickstarters that do not fulfill are going to start getting sued. Doing something like this with the intent of never giving an investor a return is fraudulent.

 

I actually appreciate the fact that you are a tough crowd.

 

Keep it going.

Chris

[Ravendas]

The complaints and scepticism has dropped considerably since you took 'competing with Dwarven Forge in my own home' off the table :)

 

It's looking a *bit* more believable now, I'm just concerned with how you're making everything multipart with a million options. Like, a cart, full of little crates, which may or may not be full. That works great for an .stl file for people to have choices for what to print, but that's a lot of individual pieces to print in HQ, make the molds of and crank out in resin. Mold making is expensive, and all these tiny little pieces I fear is a death by a thousand cuts.

[Skarabx]

I agree.. the answer I was given was put them on sprues for casting and then you can gang x number in the form. The bad thing about the resin casting is the short shelf live of the RTV silicone which cranks the price up. I am all for combining as much as I can on the sprue. I also don't think I am going to be doing any more little parts for the reasons you give. However I don't think I would charge for the .STL files of tiny things like crates and or books. Not to mention Dungeon Decor does a good job anyway.

 

The stretch goal multiples in retrospect is not a real good idea, regardless of my reasons. It's not going to kill the project but I just have to make sure I stay on top of things.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Skarabx

[Ronald X]

I should clarify:  I don't think this is a scam like Ice Age was.  Guy seems genuine and I understand the idea is to fund just moldmaking and cover material costs, hence the lower cost. 

That would have made sense if stucking with the 2 pieces = 1 dollar ratio initially provided for, which is why I was super excited about the initial offering.  It's the stretch goals that cause the problem.

I'm looking at the sheer number of molds that will need to be made and how much casting needs to be done for the stretch goals as prohibitively expensive.  Just a brief scan and I'm counting roughly 230 molds to be made, if everything listed is was single-part.  With about 44,000 pledged, that means $200 per object to cover the cost to print/prototype to get a moldable version, create the mold, then pay Valiant to cast as many of that object as requested by backers..

For example:  In the case of something like the chairs in stretch goal 5.  Backers above $200 (of which there are about 35 right now) get 36 each.  Backers above $100 (of which there about 150 right now) get 24 each.  Backers above $50 (of which there are about 160 right now) get 12 each.  Those are conservative.  So that means he's going to give away, as one part of one free stretch goal, just under 6800 resin chairs.  And he's got $200 to do it with, or what's left of that $200 after prototyping and creating the mold.

[Ravendas]

For example:  In the case of something like the chairs in stretch goal 5.  Backers above $200 (of which there are about 35 right now) get 36 each.  Backers above $100 (of which there about 150 right now) get 24 each.  Backers above $50 (of which there are about 160 right now) get 12 each.  Those are conservative.  So that means he's going to give away, as one part of one free stretch goal, just under 6800 resin chairs.  And he's got $200 to do it with, or what's left of that $200 after prototyping and creating the mold.

 

Your avatar is rather appropriate. That's what I've been suggesting this thread, but thanks for mathing it out a bit more. Those stretch goals of "Get a whole room of random stuff!" basically double a $50 pledge, and there's two or more of these.

[DMAgamus]

At the very least I appreciate you personally coming to try to allay the doubts some have. It does seem like a large workload, but I'm in for 50. Chances are I was going to lose it at a casino anyways, so even if the worst happens, If everything comes out great, I get a lot of nice furniture to paint.

[Skarabx]

At the very least I appreciate you personally coming to try to allay the doubts some have. It does seem like a large workload, but I'm in for 50. Chances are I was going to lose it at a casino anyways, so even if the worst happens, If everything comes out great, I get a lot of nice furniture to paint.

 

Thanks. If I am going to lean back and think about things... what actually scares me more is not so much not being able to fulfill... it's being late. Regardless if you fulfill or not, if your late you get that... Yeah he fulfilled but....