Dr.Bedlam Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 14 hours ago, Unruly said: Hey, Wolverine has no trouble cutting through walls with his claws, why should I have trouble cutting through a wall with my designed-for-poking rapier? Huh? Huh? Tell me that! "When we play Marvel Super Heroes, you can slash up a Corvette like it was a rib roast. However, we are now playing Dungeons and Dragons. If you want to cut down the wizard's tower, be prepared to spend a few weeks sawing at it with your magic toad stabber. And do remember Rule Zero. Any other questions?" 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuldGrump Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I'd pretty much go with Bane items having no alignment - there are aligned items (and alignment is, itself, an enchantment), but Bane weapons don't care. And the race of the caster does not matter in the slightest - remember, we are dealing with worlds where Heaven, Hell, and Limbo all impact the world. If Bob the Elf Hating Chaotic Neutral Ranger does not detect as evil then neither will his sword Ear Chopper, even though he gets a bonus on killing the pointy eared gits, and his sword makes that job easier. *** Working on the scenario for Sam -going for a sandbox, but trying to put in hints that there is a background. At one time, the Borderlands pushed much further North - until around four hundred years ago, when the Evil races of the North took advantage of a war of succession to push the border several hundred miles South, destroying, capturing, and sacking cities - leaving plenty of entertaining ruins in their wake. What has been lost to time is that the empire that used to control the entire southern area of the continent was, itself, Lawful Evil. While the Evil races are, in fact, Evil, they were also pushing against an aggressive, slave taking, necromancer employing Evil Empire. (See the above mentioned entertaining ruins.) This area will be aimed at levels 4-6, which should keep Sam and her cohorts busy for a while. First area that I am fleshing out is about halfway up that scale, Chelson Culvert and Gaolbridge. (Megan mocks my names.... they seem like perfectly fine names to me!) Gaolbridge is a fortified bridge and Chelson Culvert is a literal dungeon that is built into it's abutment. Daire Chelson, the adventurer that first rediscovered it, saw the cells and chains and assumed that the place had been a jail - and named the bridge after it. It was not a jail, it was a point where slaves from the North were placed on ships and shipped South - the Empire being firm believers that the first step in making a good slave is to remove him from his homeland and possible allies. Besides, orcs are barbarians, really, we were doing them a favor. The Culvert part is - waste removal for the cells was handled by having a constant stream of water flowing through a trough in the floor, all of which comes out beside the door to the dungeon. (And added extra dank and stank as a bonus feature.) The Auld Grump 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuldGrump Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Gaolbridge is also the source of the encounter Are You an Oyster? - a family of wyverns have taken over the upper reaches of two of the towers that guarded the bridge. One of the wyverns swoops down and grabs the largest PC or a pack pony if they have them, goes way up, and then drops him or her, hoping to crack that crunchy outer coating, to get to the delicious treat inside. (So, a big burly fighter or barbarian is going to get scooped up - they have more meat. Wizards are kinda stringy.) The pack pony is a different matter, since the wyvern really isn't interested in the gear, all they want is the meat.... The Auld Grump 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuldGrump Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) The Evil Empire of days gone by is going to be Duergar - because Sam's father has a Chaos Dwarf army, including a whole bunch of those old monopose plastic Chaos Dwarfs. (It came out of storage as Abyssal Dwarfs - so Sam will have somebody to play against as she learns Kings of War.) *EDIT* Many of the plastic Chaos Dwarfs were never even painted. I had forgotten how ugly those minis were.... *EDIT 2* Introduced Matt to Russian Alternative - a good source, if he wants to update his minis, and to Mantic Games, a cheap source to update his models... The Auld Grump Edited October 12, 2017 by TheAuldGrump 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Chaoswolf Posted October 13, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2017 One of the things that I disliked about 3rd edition overall was that they seemed to be changing things just 'cause they could. THAC0 is an example of this. On 10/8/2017 at 3:09 PM, TheAuldGrump said: I'll take 'Unnecessary mathematics for 500, Alex' 'This unnecessary number in Dungeons and Dragons meant that you needed three calculations in order to derive a number that could have been determined with a single calculation just by having the numbers go up instead of down' 'What is THAC0? Alex! The Auld Grump - something that I really don't miss about the older editions.... Not trying to be argumentative, but I'm really not seeing how it was all that difficult. Your THAC0 is 18. Roll a d20 Subtract the die roll from 18 The answer is what AC you hit. Done. One calculation. If you want to start counting bonuses from strength, magic weapons, or what have you, then you might need another calculation, but the same holds true with 3rd ed from my (limited) experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Bedlam Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 At the time, THACO wasn't much of a departure for me. I was a heavy player at the time, and as we transitioned from first to second edition, we ALREADY pretty much had the hit tables memorized backwards and forwards, so the idea of simply doing a calculation in your head of one number didn't seem like much of a change. But then, I am a nerd. And not a young one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitM Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Chaoswolf said: One of the things that I disliked about 3rd edition overall was that they seemed to be changing things just 'cause they could. THAC0 is an example of this. Not trying to be argumentative, but I'm really not seeing how it was all that difficult. Your THAC0 is 18. Roll a d20 Subtract the die roll from 18 The answer is what AC you hit. Done. One calculation. If you want to start counting bonuses from strength, magic weapons, or what have you, then you might need another calculation, but the same holds true with 3rd ed from my (limited) experience. Because, if we're ignoring all the modifiers as you did, the new system is: Roll a d20. That's the AC you hit. edit to add: Plus, bigger numbers = better numbers is a pretty basic concept to grasp. Pre-3E D&D mixed up whether rolling high was good or bad; like Gygax was paranoid that someone was going to show up with loaded dice or something. Edited October 13, 2017 by VitM 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuldGrump Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 First - I did not say that using THAC0 was difficult. I pointed out that derivingTHAC0 was the problem, not complicated, not hard..... The real problem with THAC0 - there was no reason for the AC to go DOWNwhen the target numbers go UP! I did not call it 'difficult' - I called it 'unnecessary' - because there was no reason for it. In what way, on what planet, does it make sense to have the number you use to derive the difficulty advance in the inverse of the main calculation? Even then, why have the scale begin with 10, not 0? THAC0 wasn't hard, it was stupid! It was unnecessary math. My inner engineer wants to grab a time machine, just so I can go back in time and yell at Gary Gygax. The Auld Grump 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Sundseth Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 THAC0 was just a codification of what many people had been doing already to the To Hit tables. It wasn't hard to derive an algorithm that was close enough to the tables to work but that didn't involve weird range bands and jumps, so IME it was pretty common. So I don't find it surprising that 2nd Ed. used a system that was just a simplification of OD&D/1st Ed. What I don't know is why Plate and Shield was AC2 and No Armor was AC9 originally. The answer is probably just "Gygax". If you ever looked inside of Dangerous Dimensions/Dangerous Journeys, that comment might make more sense. (The rules certainly won't.) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuldGrump Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) I had a nice talk with Sam's parents as to what they want to see in the adventure - and how big it needs to be, how the maps should look, and if I should add either illos or use clipart. Doing the maps in CC3+, using the Comic Book style from one of the 2013 Annuals - The Old School style would have been a better match for the maps from Keep on the Borderlands, but the Comic Book style is simple, and very easy to read. Interior maps are going to be Dungeons of Schley style, unless the plan changes. Not entirely happy with that - the difference in styles is a bit jarring, at least to me. (The annuals are a lot more likely to have overland map styles than dungeon styles.) Each encounter will be on a separate page - with any encounter map and/or overflow on the obverse side of the page. They want a style that Sam will be able to imitate on her own. They liked my fat and lazy ogres, and the Cliff Wyverns made them laugh. The Cliff Wyverns have a built in tendency to pick on the character most likely to survive it - picking the biggest and/or the shiniest.... So, the guy in full plate over the gal in leather, the hulking half-orc over the halfling. A lot of their tactics involve picking their target up, carrying them about thirty feet up, and dropping them. In the Shiny! encounter, they try to take the target home - he is shiny! An encounter with a younger wyvern is about Stalking - it follows the PCs, trying Not To Be Seen... then steals a backpack containing food - it is not looking for a fight. The Auld Grump *EDIT* They are also getting her Campaign Cartographer... I hope she can climb the learning curve.... Edited October 13, 2017 by TheAuldGrump 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Sundseth Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TheAuldGrump said: They are also getting her Campaign Cartographer... I hope she can climb the learning curve.... She sounds incredibly bright, and if she can handle that, she should be set up for a job as an engineer running a CAD package. But oh my.... ETA: I'd probably try something like Inkscape to start with instead if it were me. Much easier learning curve and the price is right. But then I use Illustrator all the time at work, so perhaps it just seems easier to me. Edited October 13, 2017 by Doug Sundseth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buglips*the*goblin Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said: THAC0 was just a codification of what many people had been doing already to the To Hit tables. It wasn't hard to derive an algorithm that was close enough to the tables to work but that didn't involve weird range bands and jumps, so IME it was pretty common. So I don't find it surprising that 2nd Ed. used a system that was just a simplification of OD&D/1st Ed. What I don't know is why Plate and Shield was AC2 and No Armor was AC9 originally. The answer is probably just "Gygax". If you ever looked inside of Dangerous Dimensions/Dangerous Journeys, that comment might make more sense. (The rules certainly won't.) Scary integers helped keep the riff-raff out. It was the velvet rope of RPG gaming. Do you know the difference between a minus and a plus? What if the minus IS a plus? And what if the plus IS a minus? And what if this table makes you roll high, and this one low? Ha ha ha! NOW LOOK UPON THIS NONLINEAR DISTRIBUTION OF MIXED POLYHEDRALS AND DESPAIR. It was a simpler time. Or a more complicated time. Whatever, it could have used more algebra. I hit AC 2x+3(y-2)? Sorry, the monster is AC -b, so you are eaten. Edited October 13, 2017 by buglips*the*goblin 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuldGrump Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, buglips*the*goblin said: Scary integers helped keep the riff-raff out. It was the velvet rope of RPG gaming. Do you know the difference between a minus and a plus? What if the minus IS a plus? And what if the plus IS a minus? And what if this table makes you roll high, and this one low? Ha ha ha! NOW LOOK UPON THIS NONLINEAR DISTRIBUTION OF MIXED POLYHEDRALS AND DESPAIR. It was a simpler time. Or a more complicated time. Whatever, it could have used more algebra. I hit AC 2x+3(y-2)? Sorry, the monster is AC -b, so you are eaten. Sorry, I like a system based on another game of the time. Is it dark? If yes, then you are eaten by a grue. The Auld Grump 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buglips*the*goblin Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, TheAuldGrump said: Sorry, I like a system based on another game of the time. Is it dark? If yes, then you are eaten by a grue. The Auld Grump M... maybe they failed their Grue check, so they didn't know what ate them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuldGrump Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said: She sounds incredibly bright, and if she can handle that, she should be set up for a job as an engineer running a CAD package. But oh my.... ETA: I'd probably try something like Inkscape to start with instead if it were me. Much easier learning curve and the price is right. But then I use Illustrator all the time at work, so perhaps it just seems easier to me. CC3 is a lot easier to learn than CC2 was, with at least some curve. (CC2 had more of a learning cliff... and many fell off of it.) Which is not to say that it is easy. Or fast. Or fast and easy to learn. But, damn, when you know what you are doing, you can make some durn pretty maps. Sadly, most of the older, easier, faster, tile based mappers seem to have disappeared - I was a huge fan of Dungeon Crafter. The Auld Grump 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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