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3 hours ago, Cranky Dog said:

Now you got me curious.

 

Since the word is of French origin, I naturally know how to pronounce it in its original form. But how do you guys normally pronounce it?

 

It's already bad enough that every French speaking person I know pronounces 'drow' to sound like 'snow'. And it's still my preferred pronunciation.

 

Oh...I've only ever heard it as "grog-nard" as it's spelled, so that's how I pronounce it. Now I feel like an uncultured swine. :lol:

 

Huzzah!

--OneBoot :D

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5 minutes ago, OneBoot said:

 

Oh...I've only ever heard it as "grog-nard" as it's spelled, so that's how I pronounce it. Now I feel like an uncultured swine. :lol:

 

Huzzah!

--OneBoot :D

Well, I'm right there with you in the pig pen...

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4 hours ago, Cranky Dog said:

Now you got me curious.

 

Since the word is of French origin, I naturally know how to pronounce it in its original form. But how do you guys normally pronounce it?

 

It's already bad enough that every French speaking person I know pronounces 'drow' to sound like 'snow'. And it's still my preferred pronunciation.

I pronounce it G-R-U-M-P. ::P:  No silent letters!

 

Edited by PaganMegan
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19 hours ago, Cranky Dog said:

Now you got me curious.

 

Since the word is of French origin, I naturally know how to pronounce it in its original form. But how do you guys normally pronounce it?

 

It's already bad enough that every French speaking person I know pronounces 'drow' to sound like 'snow'. And it's still my preferred pronunciation.

 

I'm firmly in the grog-nard camp. But then, it's a word that I've only really ever seen used in print. I don't know that anyone I've ever spoken to has ever used it themselves, though I've probably slipped it into my speech once or twice.

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1 hour ago, Unruly said:

 

I'm firmly in the grog-nard camp. But then, it's a word that I've only really ever seen used in print. I don't know that anyone I've ever spoken to has ever used it themselves, though I've probably slipped it into my speech once or twice.

 

 Having too much time on my hands I wasted an hour or so reading this up on t'internet.

Got to admit I'd not realised that this mainly seems to be used as a name for "old" gamers who grumble about changes to D&D, wargames rules etc. (Or so most web articles seem to imply.)

I'd only ever heard of it as a slang name for Napoleons' Old Guard. Hence my suggestion of a French pronunciation.

 

Once again my pedantry seems to be out of date. :down:

 

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18 minutes ago, paintybeard said:

 

 Having too much time on my hands I wasted an hour or so reading this up on t'internet.

Got to admit I'd not realised that this mainly seems to be used as a name for "old" gamers who grumble about changes to D&D, wargames rules etc. (Or so most web articles seem to imply.)

I'd only ever heard of it as a slang name for Napoleons' Old Guard. Hence my suggestion of a French pronunciation.

 

Once again my pedantry seems to be out of date. :down:

 

 

The word you're looking for is "nuanced". ::D:

 

The gaming term comes from comparing old guard wargamers with Napoleon's Old Guard. Note that this usage (to my knowledge) came out of historical miniatures wargaming into the rest of the hobby.

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27 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

The word you're looking for is "nuanced". ::D:

 

The gaming term comes from comparing old guard wargamers with Napoleon's Old Guard. Note that this usage (to my knowledge) came out of historical miniatures wargaming into the rest of the hobby.

Indeed, didn't it originally refer to Historical Miniature Wargamers who looked down on SF/F Wargamers?

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4 minutes ago, etherial said:

Indeed, didn't it originally refer to Historical Miniature Wargamers who looked down on SF/F Wargamers?

 

Originally? Who knows.

 

There is no group that I know of that is more tight-fisted and grouchy than old miniatures wargamers. (I say this as an old miniatures wargamer; I know whereof I speak. <_<) They will grumble about anything, and the passage of time doesn't really change either the subjects or the volume. (Try mentioning System 7 Napoleonics at an HMGS event if you want to see this in action.)

 

There's definitely a big contingent of historical miniatures wargamers that looks down upon SF/F, but it's not really any different than the AD&D players who look down upon D&D3 in either cause or tone. I guarantee the rise of SF/F gaming is later than the start of old-wargamer grumbling. By the time of the rise of SF/F in the gaming community, the mainstream of historical wargaming was WWII, not Napoleonics, so I suspect the term is older than that, though if anyone has anything definitive, I'd be interested to see it.

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52 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

The word you're looking for is "nuanced". ::D:

 

The gaming term comes from comparing old guard wargamers with Napoleon's Old Guard. Note that this usage (to my knowledge) came out of historical miniatures wargaming into the rest of the hobby.

 

I'll certainly take "nuanced" over "hopelessly out of touch" any day!

And just to make it even better, the wargames club I belong to are called... "The Old Guard"!

 

 

10 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

Originally? Who knows.

 

There is no group that I know of that is more tight-fisted and grouchy than old miniatures wargamers. (I say this as an old miniatures wargamer; I know whereof I speak. <_<) They will grumble about anything, and the passage of time doesn't really change either the subjects or the volume. (Try mentioning System 7 Napoleonics at an HMGS event if you want to see this in action.)

 

There's definitely a big contingent of historical miniatures wargamers that looks down upon SF/F, but it's not really any different than the AD&D players who look down upon D&D3 in either cause or tone. I guarantee the rise of SF/F gaming is later than the start of old-wargamer grumbling. By the time of the rise of SF/F in the gaming community, the mainstream of historical wargaming was WWII, not Napoleonics, so I suspect the term is older than that, though if anyone has anything definitive, I'd be interested to see it.

 

This rings a lot of bells with me. I still see a lot of wargamers who, on passing ANY table with a fantasy or SF game being played, roll their eyes and mutter:"Fairies!"

Edited by paintybeard
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As a first generation D&D player, I  can attest to the disdain of the historical wargamers for the fantasy gamers.

 

And when the head of the local (primarily historical) wargaming society ran a version of Sturmgeshutz & Sorcery the historical players were... unhappy. (Though the fantasy players in that same game had a blast.)

 

The Auld Grump

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1 hour ago, TheAuldGrump said:

As a first generation D&D player, I  can attest to the disdain of the historical wargamers for the fantasy gamers.

 

And when the head of the local (primarily historical) wargaming society ran a version of Sturmgeshutz & Sorcery the historical players were... unhappy. (Though the fantasy players in that same game had a blast.)

 

The Auld Grump

 

I find much the same thing as Grump does. And I attribute this to the fact that most SF/Fantasy players show much more ability to "think outside the box" and come up with battle-winning solutions to surprise situations.

 Too many historical players tend to get unhappy if history doesn't repeat itself in a comforting manner. 

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3 hours ago, TheAuldGrump said:

As a first generation D&D player, I  can attest to the disdain of the historical wargamers for the fantasy gamers.

 

1 hour ago, paintybeard said:

 

I find much the same thing as Grump does. And I attribute this to the fact that most SF/Fantasy players show much more ability to "think outside the box" and come up with battle-winning solutions to surprise situations.

 Too many historical players tend to get unhappy if history doesn't repeat itself in a comforting manner. 

 

Not actually my experience. I started with board wargames in the mid-70s and the people I gamed with were willing to play SF or Fantasy as Moderns or WWII or 30YW or whatever. My first miniatures experience was with the Rhein Confederation Wargames Society, which started as a Napoleonic Miniatures group but which was also where I was introduced to OD&D. My current Pathfinder group started at Colorado Military Historians, which is mostly a historical miniatures group. But I can remember playing Twilight Imperium until dawn at a Friday night meeting.

 

I know that there are historical miniatures gamers that try to look down on SF&F. (Since I have the moral high ground that doesn't work as well as they might wish :B):.)  But they're pretty easy to ignore. And if you play the games the decent historicals gamers like to play as well, it usually works out, IME.

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On 8/17/2018 at 9:27 PM, paintybeard said:

 

I find much the same thing as Grump does. And I attribute this to the fact that most SF/Fantasy players show much more ability to "think outside the box" and come up with battle-winning solutions to surprise situations.

 Too many historical players tend to get unhappy if history doesn't repeat itself in a comforting manner. 

Another time it was run, the Historical side won - in part because the person in charge of the flamethowers was having a blast, and went troll hunting....

 

I started as an historical player - but fell in love with Chainmail, terrible a set of rules as it was. ::): 

 

The Auld Grump - my first unit of 'elves' may have looked suspiciously like Minifig Napoleonic Era Prussians....<_< (Somehow we have not left the campsite yet....)

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