Best Version of DnD?

[TheAuldGrump]

17 hours ago, Unruly said:

 

 

Pathfinder also has part of its campaign setting where a crashed space ship allows for all sorts of magitech stuff happening. They even did an AP based there. It's the country of Numeria, and the AP is called Iron Gods. An AI from the ship creates other AIs, who then create a cult, in an attempt to ascend to godhood. They released a rules splatbook called the Technology Guide to cover all sorts of that stuff.

 

You could also mine the old D&D module Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, because it's the original and what Numeria as a whole was based on. Again, it's a crashed spaceship and lots of high tech stuff being introduced to a fantasy world.

Shhhh, it's a secret, but James Jacobs is a huge fan of Expedition to the Barrier Peaks....

 

The Auld Grump - by 'secret' I mean listing it as one of the 30 best role playing game scenarios of all time in Dragon Magazine, and as one of the top 5 for Dungeons & Dragons.....

Edited March 9, 2017 by TheAuldGrump

[Auberon]

10 hours ago, DocPiske said:

This is probably old news to many, but I just found this site and while I don't agree with everything he writes it is still interesting (some pseudo-foul language):

 

http://angrydm.com/2014/09/dear-wotc-why-do-you-suck-at-selling-games/

 

 

I've actually heard the answer to one of his questions/points.  No, TSR did not create the perfect PHB 25 years ago, Yes, people that work for WOTC have thought about how to change it, and No, no one has come up with anything better.  The essential problem a PHB has is that a PC is composed of an interconnected mesh of rules.  Something has to go first, but no matter what you pick it will inevitably need to refer to a topic that hasn't been covered yet.  New players will say something like "I want to play an elf wizard," so it makes a certain kind of sense to put the races and classes before the details like skills and feats.  It works fine for a returning gamer, but for that first time reader it's not easy.

 

Somehow the topic of D&D came up at my last job and a coworker told me that back in high school (much more recent for him than me) he decided to find out what this whole D&D thing was bout.  He went over to a friends house when they were gaming and was handed the PHB and told "read this."  Needless to say he left that night and never became a D&D player. 

[Sylverthorne]

It's not just D&D that has that issue. I hit it running when I started poking through the core rules for The Dark Eye. It's /a lot to absorb/ if you're not familiar with the system and the rules. I've hit some variation on that with almost every system I've tried. Sometimes it's game lore, sometimes it's system mud, sometimes it's just plain bad layout, but there's always /something/ that makes a hiccup for someone who's just starting.

 

The only real solution I have ever seen has been some variant on 'what kind of character do you want to try? We have one of those! Here's a filled out sheet and some appropriate dice; jump on in!' Which still requires explaining things, but it does tend to get the unsuspecting hooked.

The writer of that particular article is entirely correct about one thing though; in the end, it's not really the companies that sell the games, it's the people that play/run them.

[BlazingTornado]

17 minutes ago, Sylverthorne said:

The writer of that particular article is entirely correct about one thing though; in the end, it's not really the companies that sell the games, it's the people that play/run them.

Fortunately, in today's digital world, the "older cousin" is all over. Whether it's live gameplay like Critical Role, Dice Camera Action or even Acquisitions Inc, or vloggers like Matt Colville, there's plenty of ressources out there to help you learn the game or get the "feel" of a game without having to set one up.

 

Twitch and Youtube have been hugely beneficial to spreading the interest in D&D, IMO.

[Sylverthorne]

2 minutes ago, BlazingTornado said:

Fortunately, in today's digital world, the "older cousin" is all over. Whether it's live gameplay like Critical Role, Dice Camera Action or even Acquisitions Inc, or vloggers like Matt Colville, there's plenty of ressources out there to help you learn the game or get the "feel" of a game without having to set one up.

 

Twitch and Youtube have been hugely beneficial to spreading the interest in D&D, IMO.

 

I'm not so sure; I don't want to /watch/ someone play, I want to play!

I will say this; the internet in general has made that much easier; the tech for virtual gaming has come a long way since the days of the PBEM and MUD .. and all the other acronyms.

 

Cripes, I feel old now. I remember dialing into a bulletin board to play Legend of the Red Dragon! o.O

[BlazingTornado]

22 minutes ago, Sylverthorne said:

I'm not so sure; I don't want to /watch/ someone play, I want to play!

Yeah I know but from a newcomer's perspective. You want to play, but you're not sure what you're getting into... Checking out streamers can really help, especially the "pro" stuff which focuses more on the stories and the fun than the mechanics.

 

It's kinda like watching a Let's Player to get an idea of what a video game is, in order to decide if it's worth the time and money for you.

[VitM]

11 hours ago, BlazingTornado said:

Yeah I know but from a newcomer's perspective. You want to play, but you're not sure what you're getting into... Checking out streamers can really help, especially the "pro" stuff which focuses more on the stories and the fun than the mechanics.

 

It's kinda like watching a Let's Player to get an idea of what a video game is, in order to decide if it's worth the time and money for you.

 

See, I kind of feel the opposite way in regards to the focus on story rather than mechanics on these sorts of videos.  If I can't really tell if the people in the video are playing Pathfinder or Dungeon World or 5e or whatever, then that dis-incentivises me from purchasing any of those games.  The play experience isn't really visibly changing much when you focus solely on the story, as the mechanics--and the play experience they deliver--are literally the only thing that differentiates the games.

[etherial]

14 hours ago, Auberon said:

 

I've actually heard the answer to one of his questions/points.  No, TSR did not create the perfect PHB 25 years ago, Yes, people that work for WOTC have thought about how to change it, and No, no one has come up with anything better.  The essential problem a PHB has is that a PC is composed of an interconnected mesh of rules.  Something has to go first, but no matter what you pick it will inevitably need to refer to a topic that hasn't been covered yet.  New players will say something like "I want to play an elf wizard," so it makes a certain kind of sense to put the races and classes before the details like skills and feats.  It works fine for a returning gamer, but for that first time reader it's not easy.

I think every RPG could benefit from carefully considering which sections a new player should read in their first sitting and making them as accessible as humanly possible and then marking them with big bold labels.

[TheAuldGrump]

15 hours ago, BlazingTornado said:

Fortunately, in today's digital world, the "older cousin" is all over. Whether it's live gameplay like Critical Role, Dice Camera Action or even Acquisitions Inc, or vloggers like Matt Colville, there's plenty of ressources out there to help you learn the game or get the "feel" of a game without having to set one up.

 

Twitch and Youtube have been hugely beneficial to spreading the interest in D&D, IMO.

 

Is that a cue for The Dead Alewives?

 

'Cause it sounds like a cue for The Dead Alewives -

 

The Auld Grump - hey, if there is a ten foot tall demon thing in your kitchen, and all it wants is the Fritos and Mountain Dew, then you got nothing to complain about, no matter how bad a player he might be....

 

*EDIT* The full Dead Alewives sketch is a good bit longer, but I just love the Summoner Geeks version....

Edited March 10, 2017 by TheAuldGrump

[TheAuldGrump]

On 3/8/2017 at 8:17 AM, PingosHusband said:

 

There was a Knights of the Dinner Table comic about this exact thing years ago.  The DM had a Gelatinous Cube down at the bottom of the pit, so the character fell gently and slowly down into a slow oozing dissolution starting with his feet.

I would never do such a thing!

 

...for the children's game, at least.

 

I do plan on using a favorite cliche that I haven't tried in years  - I am pretty sure that I can get one of the PCs to chase after a gobbo that tries to flee from combat... which will lead to a nasty that eats the gobbo, and then looks at the PC as the main course, hopefully he will flee right back to the party, being chased by the nasty. (Cue Yakety Sax.)

 

The Auld Grump - I'm thinking Owlbear....

[BlazingTornado]

Well my players are about to get screwed.

 

Actually the session ended DURING the screwing.

 

Because in Rahasia there is a teleport area, that can only teleport one at a time, because you need to wear a silly hat in order to activate the teleporter.

And they messed around a lot trying to figure out the purpose of this teleporter. A lot a lot.

 

But they did. And they figured it out by, well, using it. It's a one-way teleporter that leads to a 10x10 room sealed off by a mechanical gate whose lever is not accessible from inside.... there are six characters in the party at the moment (my five players and a Fighter NPC they rescued), so that room's about to get reeeeaaaaaaaally cramped, at least as far as map squares go.
Also, one of the three evil witches of the module is sleeping in the room with the lever.

 

And as I said, they are screwed, because as soon as the first player tested the silly hat and the alcove, they all decided "Oh hey let's all do it! Yeah!"

[Dilvish the Deliverer]

I'm going to be interested to see what happens during the next game I run for Drinking and Dragons in April.  I'll be running The Marrionette (Curse of Strand AL game)

 

It's got a lot of creepy imagery and so cool encounters that can be difficult depending on party makeup.

[Mad Jack]

21 hours ago, Dilvish the Deliverer said:

I'm going to be interested to see what happens during the next game I run for Drinking and Dragons in April.  I'll be running The Marrionette (Curse of Strand AL game)

 

It's got a lot of creepy imagery and so cool encounters that can be difficult depending on party makeup.

 

Depending on whether or not I have a fixed schedule after the next week or two (i.e., have a job), I'm quite likely going to try to be in that game.

 

What level range is the adventure?

 

[Dilvish the Deliverer]

It's designed for 3rd level characters.  Do you want me to put you down for a spot of there is still one?

[Darkmeer]

Played more Shadow of the Demon Lord this weekend.  It's a fun little system.  Very rated R.  Very dark.  You could tone it down, but Ogres are really gross in that setting.  That's going to be a thing I talk about now. 

 

SO, Ogres in Warhammer eat a lot.  It's a thing. 

Ogres in D&D are just dumb sacks of muscle.

Ogres in Pathfinder are dumb sacks of muscle who also partake of internal family relations (trying to keep pg-13 here). 

Ogres in Shadow of the Demon Lord are sort of like a combination of all three, as they were presented to me (I have no experience in the setting OR system despite its overall d20 base).  Ogres in Shadow of the Demon lord have two abilities:  EAT YOU if you're unconscious or unable to defend yourself.  And VOMIT anything they've eaten onto someone as an acidic breath attack.  That's horrible! 

 

I am doing prep work for next saturday's normal Pathfinder game (most of that work is done, just have to re-read it).  This will result in the back half of the adventure we are playing that will bring the party to level 2.  I like slow progression, but, given we only play once per month, faster progression is definitely going to be needed here.