Best Version of DnD?

[Dr.Bedlam]

Mystara never got enough love, IMHO. The Forgotten Realms were a great setting, and still are, but Mystara was the original "anything can happen" setting... a role which nowadays has gone to Eberron, which, while not bad, is a bit steampunk/magitek for my tastes.

In a sorta kinda related note, I have discovered that Corbin Bernsen is going to be on American Gods... as Vulcan/Hephestaeus, the blacksmith of the gods... but in America, he's the god of guns, gun rights, and gun ownership. The more I think about this, the more it disturbs me...

[TheAuldGrump]

None of the geographies for Greyhawk, Mystara, or the Forgotten Realms makes any sense.... (I know! Let us put a glacier right next to a blazing desert!)

 

Now if they ever do a similar bundle for Eberron... or Birthright....

 

*EDIT* Still, for $15? Not gonna complain!

 

The Auld Grump

Edited May 30, 2017 by TheAuldGrump

[TheAuldGrump]

One nice thing about running the kids game - when the going gets tough, the kids are willing to run like bunnies!

 

They were at less than half HP, on the average, spells depleted - and they found the Great Hall, complete with giant... and ran the heck out of there!

 

The Auld Grump

[Doug Sundseth]

Yeah, that can be really hard with adults. "We're the heroes. We don't run."

 

"No, you were the heroes. Now you're the guys the author uses to show how dangerous the antagonist is."

[etherial]

3 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

Yeah, that can be really hard with adults. "We're the heroes. We don't run."

 

"No, you were the heroes. Now you're the guys the author uses to show how dangerous the antagonist is."

A friend of mine was trying to figure out how to write a "No really, this will kill at least half of you if you stay" signal for LARPing and concluded it would be ignored anyway.

[VitM]

Running away doesn't always fit into everyone's idea of fun or heroic fantasy.  Personally, I'd rather have some characters die because I made an error in the application of my character's abilities, or because the dice just doomed me, than because I was presented with a fight the DM intended me to run away from.  From a player perspective, it's sometimes a method to help the DM remain "fair"; "We're not going to run away from any challenge; so, anytime you want to end the campaign, just throw something at us that we can't possibly overcome."

[Doug Sundseth]

2 hours ago, VitM said:

Running away doesn't always fit into everyone's idea of fun or heroic fantasy.

 

No argument there. I'm mostly one of those people. And it's even more true of situations where the GM expects you to surrender to survive. (That almost always requires GM fiat to work.)

 

Still, "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die" can be pretty funny.

[Sylverthorne]

If I expect a group to surrender in order to survive, I hit them all with concentrated Blue Whinnis.

. .. and then I strip them to their respective under things, lock them in anti-magic fielded cells and let them work out how to free themselves.

The group I actually did this to did manage to get themselves out.

[TheAuldGrump]

3 hours ago, VitM said:

Running away doesn't always fit into everyone's idea of fun or heroic fantasy.  Personally, I'd rather have some characters die because I made an error in the application of my character's abilities, or because the dice just doomed me, than because I was presented with a fight the DM intended me to run away from.  From a player perspective, it's sometimes a method to help the DM remain "fair"; "We're not going to run away from any challenge; so, anytime you want to end the campaign, just throw something at us that we can't possibly overcome."

I feel obliged to mention that anyone that has ever read Robert E. Howard's original Conan stories knows that even Conan was perfectly willing to go 'blow this for a game of soldiers' and beat feet away from insurmountable danger.

 

I will also point out that the DMG for 3.5 and the Gamemastery Guide for Pathfinder even say outright that the GM should put in encounters that are beyond the PCs abilities to defeat. (And I gather that in Age of Worms Paizo put in just such an encounter....)

 

And, as I have said before - if a player tries to give me an ultimatum that all encounters have to be ones that the PCs can handle I would then throw such an encounter at the PCs, and invite the players that say "We're not going to run away from any challenge; so, anytime you want to end the campaign, just throw something at us that we can't possibly overcome." to go away and not bother returning. Probably after killing their PCs in said encounter.  (Most likely only their PCs - most of my players have learned that, yes, I will throw a dragon at a low level party, and that sometimes the best answer is to run away - it was a red dragon in the adult campaign and a black dragon in the kids game.)

 

Do not attempt to give me an ultimatum when I am running a game - I will call you on it, and I will not miss you when you are gone. I have no trouble at all replacing players.

 

***

 

I have a much harder time telling a player that there is not enough room in my current games - which is how I ended up with eight players in the grown-up game and ten in the kids game.

 

My current plan is two games of six grown ups, with a three player overlap. Eight is just too many except for an Old School style game.)

 

Ten kids is... challenging - but they are also a lot more likely to play 'follow the leader' - so what one of the kids that are 'in charge' decides tends to be what happens.

 

And that is where the difference really lies - when there is an encounter that is too tough, or too tough in the PCs' current condition, there is a lot greater chance in the adult game that they will split up - with some of the PCs charging and the rest falling back.

 

Which means other PCs trying to rush in and recover Jon's corpse before the monsters make a snack of him. (In the last few adventures for the grown up Beyond the Borderlands, two of the stronger PCs were given Jon Duty - to pick up his character and carry him away rather than letting him charge. Jon went along with it - because it was funny.

 

In the kids game, the two newest players are also the least predictable - the fairy princess likes to try to talk to things. I may give her character a Rod of Wonder, so she will have something amusing to fall back on when talking does not work.

 

***

 

In honesty, I have only had two players that have tried making ultimatums - and only one was enough of a jerk otherwise that when he tried to get back into the campaign I told him no. The other backed down rather than leave. (The total number of players that I have permanently booted from campaigns, since 1976, is four - including my first DM and his best buddy - which was how I ended up DMing for the first time. So, while it is not an idle threat, it is also not one that I use all that often.)

 

I have a player in my campaign that has PCs killed more often than all the rest put together - he is perfectly aware that some encounters will get his PC killed, yet does so anyway - and has a good time while doing it. (He fights heavy list in the SCA - and is about six and a half feet tall - being the target is something that he is used to.) In my Beyond the Borderlands campaign he died twice - and got brought back both times.

 

Mind you - when there is an encounter beyond the PCs abilities, it also typically means that there are other ways to deal with the problem. (Or that it can be ignored completely - sometimes the Black Beast of Castle Aaaarghhh is handled by not going into Castle Aaaarghhh.)

 

The Auld Grump

[TheAuldGrump]

2 hours ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

No argument there. I'm mostly one of those people. And it's even more true of situations where the GM expects you to surrender to survive. (That almost always requires GM fiat to work.)

 

Still, "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die" can be pretty funny.

On that note - when I have such situations they tend to happen three ways.

 

1.) The PCs are getting slaughtered, and I offer the option of being captured, rather than have a TPK - but it will be up to them. If they take it then I stop the combat right then and there, then pick up with the PCs in captivity - no need to play it out beyond that.

 

2.) In a scenario where the PCs must be captured, I skip the capturing part, and just say 'our story begins after the PCs have been captured following a battle against insurmountable odds by the Slavers' rather than try to play out them getting captured. (Ah, the A series... lots of fun memories.)

 

3. I have had games where hostages taken for ransom was the norm - mostly RuneQuest - Griffon Mountain, Big Rubble - not only should the PCs be willing to surrender, so are many of the monsters. PCs often keeping a ransom fund for that express purpose - as do some monsters. 'I surrender! My ransom is three hundred gold!' (This is typically for more realistic games than D&D - though I have used it in a Bronze Age D&D game as well. It would also work for a more realistic Mediaeval game.)

 

The Auld Grump - offering to sell the hostages equipment back to them is also good for a few gold....

[BlazingTornado]

Bit late to add more to the mythology discussion...

 

But I should specify that I'm not sticking 100% to the Greek/Athenian myths for Ares, and he was assuredly not a "lame" presence when he appeared before them.

I mean this is what I use to represent him:

 

And I am also borrowing a bit from the Roman Mars interpretation, and a little bit from DC Comics' Ares.... Just so he's not too one-note.

[kitchen_wolf]

So, not this then.

Spoiler

 

[Dilvish the Deliverer]

7 minutes ago, kitchen_wolf said:

So, not this then.

  Hide contents

 

This one actually scares me more.

[Pingo]

52 minutes ago, BlazingTornado said:

Bit late to add more to the mythology discussion...

 

But I should specify that I'm not sticking 100% to the Greek/Athenian myths for Ares, and he was assuredly not a "lame" presence when he appeared before them.

I mean this is what I use to represent him:

 

And I am also borrowing a bit from the Roman Mars interpretation, and a little bit from DC Comics' Ares.... Just so he's not too one-note.

 

 

And then there's the bit in this video (image is not a link to the video) when Zeus says to a weepy Ares, "Man up, you big disappointment!"

 

[Dr.Bedlam]

5 hours ago, TheAuldGrump said:

I feel obliged to mention that anyone that has ever read Robert E. Howard's original Conan stories knows that even Conan was perfectly willing to go 'blow this for a game of soldiers' and beat feet away from insurmountable danger.

 

What was that one story where Conan wound up having to drop a chunk of statuary on a monster because he couldn't fight it otherwise?

There is a distinct difference between "fighting smarter, retreating, adopting a different plan" and "yer a killer DM, and you suck because WE didn't know vampires are only vulnerable to WOOD!"