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Many of these sculpts are traditional sculpts, so it appears like the people behind this project has put in a lot of their own money up front to deliever on this product. I think that the biggest challenge for this project will simply be time, or the lack of it. They will have about a year until the estimated fulfillment, which I think will be hard to live up to. The project finishes in mid-November, then add another 2 weeks to collect the money. So in December all the money has been collected, and then they can start working on the production. But since it is December, they will only have about 2 weeks to work before the Christmas and New Year holidays kick in, so I doubt a much will be accomplished there. And then you will have to factor the Chinese New Year celebrations, so I realistically, maybe the real work will start in mid-February. Then you will have the pre-production phase with approval, and depending on who will finalize those, it can take another couple of weeks if you will have to ship the test pre-production samples across half the world. And then back and forth even more as there are several parts that will have to be approved by different companies (I'd imagine that the cards, book, box might be done at one place and the plastic production at another). And all this is considered if everything is done. According to their KS page, aprox. 60% is currently completed. So that leaves another means of errors to disrupt the chain. And finally, when everything is approved and produced, then you will have at least 3-4 weeks of transit time between production and supplier. And another 3-4 weeks from supplier to backer. For a first time company, it might be a whole lot of obstacles to overcome, but nothing impossible. And people backing Kickstarters these days seem to accept delays and consider them as normal, so I'm sure that this wont really be a problem either.

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My my part I certainly do not expect this (=first wave -only the game box) to ship for at least a year after the original deadline. And that is a conservatie estimate. Add another year for all the extra goodies.

 

and I am fine with that because I expect that to happen anyway. 

 

The biggest red flag would be that time=money and if they run out of the latter due to having to pay salaries, its dead in the water unless someone picks the project up. And I would believe that any company with the funds to do that probably would not want the massive dead weight and cost of backers outstanding rewards to hassle with, so they either will not fulfill said rewards or simply won't touch the project and make their own instead.

 

Still backing though. This will make it and I will get those lovely lovely minis. Wishful thinking FTW!

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Yeah, time's a killer. If the company puts out other product (eg. Flying Frog Productions), then they can use income from their other projects to offset cost overruns. If KS (and investor) funds are their only source, then you end up with the something like Fairytale Games Battle Royale KS. Delays mean increased costs, while no funds left for the project means delays. BTW, Be careful about projects which collect shipping money long before the product is shipped. If a project starts running out of cash (eg. because they printed copies for retail), they may look towards using shipping funds to print product (eg. GameZone's HeroQuest). If the retail sales don't come in, they're now stuck with cash flow problems, of having product and no money to ship. Of the projects that went bankrupt and whose properties were taken over, the only "white knight" I know of was Cryptozoic with The Doom that Came to Atlantic City. 

 

The page saying 60% completed reminds me of the Robotech KS, which was 90% completed at the time of the KS, and, several years later, hasn't shipped out wave 2 yet.

 

Speaking of Fairytale Games, remember that they used Greenbrier Game's to help promote their KS. Robotech used Ninja Division to help promote theirs. Torn Armor used Reaper Miniatures to promote theirs. So, again, watch out when a project name-drops a well-known company as a partner.

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Haven't recieved a message yet. Was hoping for one by now, because they reply to comments all the time. Their stuff looks good, but you know. :)

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i thought Deep Madness only had resins to show off? What sort of physical mini's did they show off, exactly?

Resin don't count as physical? I am confused. If they had plastic minis already, why would they need a Kickstarter?

 

Even Reaper starts with resin during Bones Kickstarters.

 

I don't want to defend this company naively, either. As much as I want to get this game, I don't want to get burned. 

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Resins count as physical prototypes, but whether or not it means you'll have a miniature delivered to your doorstep with (almost) as much detail, I dunno. Better than just concept art, of course.

 

Reaper (and CMON, and Johnny Lauck, and even Poots, FFP and Mantic) have a track record. Diemensional Games does not.

 

But, speaking of track records, if Diemensional Games runs their first KS successfully, they'll hopefully run a second one. I've seen plenty of companies offer as much or better after their First Created project. There is no FOMO.

Edited by ced1106
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I definitely agree with that.

 

Final Mini quality is one of my concerns, of which unfortunately is not something they can showcase until it is final.

 

I guess the thing driving me to trust them, or at least want to trust them, is the extensive PR work they have been doing and the quality of those they are associating with.

 

 

Also, I asked in the KS comments about number of physical minis vs digital renders and was not answered. I can try again at some point. Are there other questions I should include?

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What, exactly, do you mean by PR? Their FB PR was a bit of a head-scratcher for me. During the pre-KS FB promotions, they wrote in conversational English. Then, someone posts this on BGG:  https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1654032/english-issues-are-red-flag

 

Not worrying about the PR, though. If you can, could you get some idea of what project management Diemension Games has? They said they didn't work on other games before, but maybe they have other relevant experience. I mean, maybe they've overseen plastic injection molding projects, and printed material. Or they used to work at Ludo Fact Asia or Panda Manufacturing. 

 

Thanks!

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Yeah... these guys are seriously dodging the question. They reply to comments that are not questions about 'why will this succeed as a first time publisher', but ignore the ones about them being a first time publisher, including my personal message. I am totally out on this one.

 

Unfortunate, because I love the miniatures.

 

I'd say buyers beware, they have had quite some time to form a response to the question, yet they do not cover it. Not even a 'we are forming a reply'.

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One likes to think that if it is the case the the creators actually are Chinese nationals situated in China, then all the massive heap of cash will go a (long) way more than for a comparable American project, simply on the grounds that costs in China (at least for natives) should be significantly lower than in the West (which actually lies both to the west and the east of China).

 

Wishful thinking FTW!

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Would be awesome if they could communicate that as a reason. :) Unfortunately...

 

I also keep glancing at those minis and go... damn that looks SWEET, but... no.

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I am still sitting on my early bird pledge. I have not put in for any add ons. 

 

Not it sure if I am going to roll the dice here or not.

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Unfortunate, because I love the miniatures.

 

I'd say buyers beware, they have had quite some time to form a response to the question, yet they do not cover it. Not even a 'we are forming a reply'.

 

Thanks for watching over the KS comments.

 

One thing I've found with KS, is that if you skip or miss one KS, there's another in a few months (Kingdom Death, Rise of Moloch, Forbidden Fortress, Roller Derby Girls, Tombstone). And if you also buy boardgames, the holiday sales are this and next month. Reaper, of course, has its October and December promotions.

 

Also, of course, you can wait for retail. Sure, you'll pay more, but the risk is reduced. In this case, the risk will be *dramatically* reduced, compared to a KS by an existing retail company, such as CMON or even Cryptozoic. We've been discussing on BGG about language issues with non-domestically created rulebooks and components (eg. Conan, Lobotomy), so that's another risk backers are beginning to realize.

 

Myself, I'm realizing that I have too many miniatures to paint, so I'm cutting off the riskier KS projects and saving the cash for the OLGS.

Edited by ced1106
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