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Heisler

MSP Open Judging - What you were afraid to ask

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I imagine it depends on the project. And how long it would take Kris to knock it off the base :)

 

I was going to say something along the lines of the only detraction I can see being increased fear of damaging the piece. (Or being near Kris when he does it. ;->)

 

 

Right, so a sub-title to the piece "Kris is not allowed to touch" would be in order.  :;):  :devil:

 

 

Really, I just happen to be the first person to find out that the mini is not physically attached to its fancy base. Remember if you put your mini on a wood base judges use that as a handle!

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Yeah, I was terrified someone would pick up my Bkightfang. Then I remembered it weighed like 5 lbs so only brave souls would probably pick it up anyway.

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It's sometimes hard to remember that you're there to get critiqued and complimented really. I think as painters we like being told "You do this well" though personally the "This REALLY needs work" is a tougher, even if accurate statement "Higher highlights, darker shadows, smoother blends" So say we all. I like playin' with freehand myself, its a balance issue of wanting to improve that, and smoother transitions.

One thing to remember is that at home, in our local FLGS, or our quasi-regional painting groups we organize, we (you, not me) tend to be the best painter of that group. Your semi-weekly RPG group for which you paint all the PCs? You're light years ahead of the others. Your FLGS has a painting contest? You win hands down. Every time. And then you get to ReaperCon and all the flaws your FLGS & RPG-mates didn't see are obvious. And your technique that's 80% perfect and so much better than everyone else? Now you're competing alongside 95%ers. So many of us walk away from these challenges disillusioned, because our small sample size we used for comparison turned out to be hindering our growth by not offering us challenges.

 

You, not me, because I have no illusions. The best mini i ever painted didn't even get a bronze, and I'm comfortable knowing that about myself.

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You, not me, because I have no illusions. The best mini i ever painted didn't even get a bronze, and I'm comfortable knowing that about myself.

 

This comment is very important I think.  I am in the same boat as Bryan!  I know I don't have the time (and possibly talent) to paint to the levels that get awards.  People always seem surprised that I don't enter something.  And it is just for this reason.  I am comfortable painting to the level I do and ENJOY doing it.  For some reason I think if I got all tied up in the need for a gold/silver/bronze then it would cease being fun and start being work!  I have enough work to do elsewhere, painting is supposed to be a distraction from that.  Plus ReaperCon gives me the ability to talk to other better painters and get real feedback without entering something.  In fact I find it nice talking to the artists at the tables more casually as well as others of you out there whose painting I really like.  That is my feedback!

Edited by Harrek
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I have never (yet) entered a competition. (Except Sie ForeScale... does that count?)

 

I am currently painting to improve my technique so I feel I can enter with something I can say "This is good." My current project, though daunting, is something like that.

 

I follow enough people on here and Facebook to know my skills are no where close to where I'd like to be. I'm not sure they ever will be. However, I am not letting the talent of others drag me down. Instead, I look to them for inspiration, to say "I'm not that good, but how would I paint this?" or "Neat effect/color combination. I need to remember this."

 

And, as a result, I have improved. ^_^

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I have promised myself that I would try to improve my painting with each new mini I paint.

Classes at Con should help with this, IF I can synthesize all of the things that I learned, with my current style.

I think, that when I get back to doing people instead of vehicles, it will be a question of trying X method with what I already do.

Then adding in Y method etc...

And if X doesn't work out, then try Y, or Z even....

I do have the 15mm tank commanders to try stuff on though....

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Painting Miniatures is not a race.  It is a journey.  When comparing yourself to others, you should only be looking at milestones you want to achieve.  The progress is made in daily segments of variable intensity and duration.  Sometimes there are detours around things, walls to climb or vistas to take a sidepath and see.  In the end though, we are all climbing a mountain together, through forests, valleys and across rivers and lakes. Somedays there are clouds or rain, somedays there is sunshine and the roar of a waterfall or a bear.  I am climbing this mountain because I enjoy it.  I don't expect to find myself alone at the top... in fact, I think I will find stages where there are meadows with butterflies and flowers and friends who have paused along the way to share the stories of their journey.  I only hope I never become too feeble of mind or body or too shortsighted to lose sight of the path. How many steps are there? I don't know.  Perhaps ten thousand, perhaps a hundred thousand.  I don't know that I will recognize the end when I get there as I'm not on the journey to find a destination, I'm on a journey to explore my soul and pass through my imagination and find people to share them with.

Edited by Grayfax
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I have promised myself that I would try to improve my painting with each new mini I paint.

Classes at Con should help with this, IF I can synthesize all of the things that I learned, with my current style.

I think, that when I get back to doing people instead of vehicles, it will be a question of trying X method with what I already do.

Then adding in Y method etc...

And if X doesn't work out, then try Y, or Z even....

I do have the 15mm tank commanders to try stuff on though....

 

You can try it but there is a world of difference between working on a 28mm and 15mm from a competition perspective so don't get frustrated. Most 28mm techniques just don't work well on 15mm (although I have certainly scene some 15mm stuff that would totally blow you away, including some from Jen Haley that I had no idea were 15mm when I first saw them). The biggest issue you will run into is the quality of the sculpting, most of the things that you would try and emphasis just don't exist on most (not all) 15mm sculpts especially those from Battle Front (I'm guessing these are some Team Yankee tank commanders).

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I have promised myself that I would try to improve my painting with each new mini I paint.

Classes at Con should help with this, IF I can synthesize all of the things that I learned, with my current style.

I think, that when I get back to doing people instead of vehicles, it will be a question of trying X method with what I already do.

Then adding in Y method etc...

And if X doesn't work out, then try Y, or Z even....

I do have the 15mm tank commanders to try stuff on though....

You can try it but there is a world of difference between working on a 28mm and 15mm from a competition perspective so don't get frustrated. Most 28mm techniques just don't work well on 15mm (although I have certainly scene some 15mm stuff that would totally blow you away, including some from Jen Haley that I had no idea were 15mm when I first saw them). The biggest issue you will run into is the quality of the sculpting, most of the things that you would try and emphasis just don't exist on most (not all) 15mm sculpts especially those from Battle Front (I'm guessing these are some Team Yankee tank commanders).
That's what they are, but I am going to try more than basescoat, wash, and dry brush, which is what I usually do with 15mm men...

These are also not for competition, but for a friend.

If I can maybe add 1 shade, or 1 highlight to each color, it will be a victory!

Ritterkreig over on the FoW forums does all the bells and whistles...

Sleeve cuffs, medals, 5 o clock shadow etc...

Edited by knarthex
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I have promised myself that I would try to improve my painting with each new mini I paint.

Classes at Con should help with this, IF I can synthesize all of the things that I learned, with my current style.

I think, that when I get back to doing people instead of vehicles, it will be a question of trying X method with what I already do.

Then adding in Y method etc...

And if X doesn't work out, then try Y, or Z even....

I do have the 15mm tank commanders to try stuff on though....

You can try it but there is a world of difference between working on a 28mm and 15mm from a competition perspective so don't get frustrated. Most 28mm techniques just don't work well on 15mm (although I have certainly scene some 15mm stuff that would totally blow you away, including some from Jen Haley that I had no idea were 15mm when I first saw them). The biggest issue you will run into is the quality of the sculpting, most of the things that you would try and emphasis just don't exist on most (not all) 15mm sculpts especially those from Battle Front (I'm guessing these are some Team Yankee tank commanders).
That's what they are, but I am going to try more than basescoat, wash, and dry brush, which is what I usually do with 15mm men...

These are also not for competition, but for a friend.

If I can maybe add 1 shade, or 1 highlight to each color, it will be a victory!

Ritterkreig over on the FoW forums does all the bells and whistles...

Sleeve cuffs, medals, 5 o clock shadow etc...

 

 I have seen his work and like I said some guys do stunning work.  And adding a shade and a highlight is certainly possible, I have done it on my Africa Korps troops. I have even done armbands, the issue is that it won't necessarily translate up well to 28mm, without a lot of extra work. My opinion is that you would going the extra shade and highlight is well worth trying on 15mm. If your plans are to compete in 15mm at Reaper Con (certainly doable) then concentrate solely on that don't switch back and forth. Otherwise I would recommend getting a box of plastic 28mm and working your way through those. At the end you have some really nice 28mm for some skirmish gaming for Bolt Action or Chain of Command or Frontline Command.

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Thanks Heisler!

15mm is for gaming pieces, no real plans to try for out and out competition works there...

I just don't want to forget everything I learned at con, but I need to get these guys done for my friend, and this way I can practice at least some of the techniques I learned...

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I'm going to bump this thread up because I think the information in is still valuable and timely for ReaperCon 2018. Also if I could get someone to pin it that would be great. It took me a while to find this.

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Thanks for bumping up all these RCon Threads, Heisler - timely for me, as I just got started on my entry.

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On 11/8/2016 at 8:30 AM, Reaperbryan said:

One thing to remember is that at home, in our local FLGS, or our quasi-regional painting groups we organize, we (you, not me) tend to be the best painter of that group. Your semi-weekly RPG group for which you paint all the PCs? You're light years ahead of the others. Your FLGS has a painting contest? You win hands down. Every time. And then you get to ReaperCon and all the flaws your FLGS & RPG-mates didn't see are obvious. And your technique that's 80% perfect and so much better than everyone else? Now you're competing alongside 95%ers. So many of us walk away from these challenges disillusioned, because our small sample size we used for comparison turned out to be hindering our growth by not offering us challenges.

 

You, not me, because I have no illusions. The best mini i ever painted didn't even get a bronze, and I'm comfortable knowing that about myself.

 

 

Yeah, there's a level of painter that I like to refer to as "Best army at the game store."  It means a person paints well, but at a level that doesn't compare to the top painters at Reapercon, Gencon, Adepticon, Salute, etc.  And I think almost all of the top painters spent some time at that level before they were able to step it up.
 

I found the remedy for this in classes.  When I started taking some of the intermediate and advanced classes from the best of the best, I found that I got a lot better.  Especially pay attention to the things they teach that are a bit off topic.  And take every bit of feedback from the judges very seriously and incorporate it into your next set of entries.

For me, my wife learned to criticize miniatures from the feedback I got, and I ended up some extremely high end sounding board for all of my entries.

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    • By Heisler
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      Presentation: 15%
       
      What does this mean for the Open Division? In this division we are really want to see all your skills. While the components remain the same the emphasis has obviously changed a great deal.
       
      Difficulty: This is far more intuitive than it is in the Painter Division. The level of difficulty depends entirely on the difficulty of the conversion, with a minor conversion being the least difficult with graduations on up from there with a complete scratch sculpt being the most difficult.
       
      Creativity: Creativity stays about the same as it does for Painter. Painting is still a factor here. Now painting is combined with your ability to convert and sculpt to reach your audience. The entrant’s imagination comes into play here, you are looking for impact on the audience. Are you straining the boundaries of believability or are you trying to evoke a specific emotion from your viewers? Have you achieved what you set out to do at the end?
       
      Workmanship: This remains a pretty straightforward component but in the Open Division there is a higher emphasis on it. It reflects how well constructed the entire piece is. Any type of non-painting effort is represented here. Again a well done conversion means that the judge can’t tell that anything has been converted. A scratch sculpt should be properly proportioned and well sculpted (no thumb prints!). A missed mold line, poor assembly or a poorly executed conversion could easily drop you a while numeric value in the scoring. This is a category that we really encourage documentation, show us what you did and how you did it.
       
      Painting Skill: Everything that was said about painting still applies in the Open Division but there is less emphasis. At this point workmanship and painting are equal. While we don’t expect your abilities to be exactly equal in both areas you cannot count on your ability to paint alone to carry you over the top.
       
      Presentation:  There is more emphasis on the is component as well. If you are building the entire entry, essentially from scratch then the presentation of your entry is going to have a significant impact on how a viewer perceives your entry. Bring your entry to life!
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