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Reaper Bones 4: Enthusiasm and Commentary Thread

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I was actually under the impression some figures of the kickstarter were for sale before the kickstarter went out. Female Ifreeti comes to me as an example, but I'm sure there were more?

It's a business. I don't mind, really. I'm just looking forward to diving headfirst in this big box of miniatures and losing track of the days of the week for at least a week (or is it?), glueing my fingers to my nose in the process!

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44 minutes ago, Venun said:

I was actually under the impression some figures of the kickstarter were for sale before the kickstarter went out. Female Ifreeti comes to me as an example, but I'm sure there were more?

It's a business. I don't mind, really. I'm just looking forward to diving headfirst in this big box of miniatures and losing track of the days of the week for at least a week (or is it?), glueing my fingers to my nose in the process!


It was the Female Ifreeti and the Rock Troll as limited promos only (so far).  I got the impression (NEVER SAID BY REAPER, PURE SPECULATION) that the accidental swap between the boat shipments that contained the CURSED TRIO (Frost Giant Raiders, Baba Yaga's Dancing Hut, Tree of Despair) and the first retail restock lead to them having an overabundance of certain pieces, and that's why those two Bones Black minis were chosen as part of the Bonus Monthly figures.

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One big issue with starting to sell Bones 4 items before every backer has received their pledges is 'what will they do if something sells out, and they then find that the boxes whipped to mainland EU or Australia is missing parts from those sets'?    

 

One very big reason why they shipped everything to Reaper HQ is that the minis are produced in lots. First a lot of one figure, then a lot of the next figure and so on. Keeping every type of mini accessble to pack individual pledges, or even for 'job lots' to be shipped to different fulfillment centers would be very expensive. (now it can be just shoved itn ocrates and loaded onto containers as they're finished. With job lots or individual pledges they'd need to rent a large area to do the repackaging)   

And no they can't do 'small runs' of each mini and ship off to a fulfillment center.  It takes time to swap the molds, then they need to run test pieces, adjust it and so on. Even with Chinese labour costs being as low as they are it's costly to run small jobs.   

 

If Reaper want to avoid the 'ship everything to Reaper HQ', they'll need to change the structure of these Kickstarters. 

No option for picking subsets of minis from the Core set being he most important one.

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On 5/8/2019 at 1:16 PM, Bane Of Humanity said:

I dont think thats the intention.  I would say that its a bit silly for them to ship everything to the US HQ to have it resorted and shipped back across the ocean to Europe and Asian.  
That tacks on at least an extra month to service those regions.  

I think they view it as once its in the mail or on the water.  Its done.  The wait time on the water isn't something they can do anything about and it costs them time to get new product on the store if they wait.  
To also be fair when it comes to European kickstarters that are based over there.  US customers often get treated the same.  For example the Infinity RPG Kickstarter.  I had to wait a full year after it shipped in Europe to get my stuff.  

I would also invite you to read this 
2f241f5ea27f0be6f4e50da183faa6ae_original.thumb.jpg.01629648339aea74e027b6f860653172.jpg 

One part in particular "Due to the logistics of world shipping and trade it is impossible for us to guarantee that all Pledges shipped will arrive to all backers simultaneously or even within a few days or weeks of each other"

I mean I get you're frustrated because everyone else has their stuff.  I think if reaper had any control over fixing this issue though I think they would.

 

I fully understand.

But the bold thing is not my problem, I don't mind other backers receiving their stuff before me.

I have a problem with selling it in retail before I get mine as a backer as happened with Boness III.

That is something Reaper does have control over.

 

The Facebook announcement implies ( to me, I might be reading it wrong though) that this will happen again.

All I'm saying is that it would be nice if Reaper would wait with that till all backers received their stuff.

But it is possibly too much to ask.

 

I know Reaper doesn't mean it this way, but when this happend in Bones III, I did feel like only US customers count.

And that is a bad feeling.

Treat us all the same by putting it all in retail rightaway or putting it in retail when we all have received it.

Don't say it's over because only the US backers got their stuff.

I do understand we can't receive it all in the same time, for me a Kickstarter is half about the value and half about getting stuff that isn't in the store yet.

It might be different for others of course, maybe not everybody cares about that.

 

Anyway, VAT for EU was now paid up front so we won't have to again, unless Brexit happened and that hasn't happened due to sheer luck.

It was unclear how it would be handled should that happen.

No problem so far, but if we get taxed a second time then it would be bad and not what was agreed upon.

I'm expecting it will be alright this time.

 

However, Bones 5? If there is no clear and definite answer what Reaper will do with Brexit then I can't back that.

There are several possibilities to handle it.

I don't mind if they went the same way as with Bones I to III when there was no UK hub yet.

Just pledge, no VAT up front and then pay VAT when it arrives.

Send it directly from US to Mainland Europe.

 

Brexit WILL happen during Bones 5 and the time it will take to fullfill that.

So basically the UK hub is only interesting for the UK market, not for the EU mainland anymore when it comes to EU friendly shipping.

It can be used but it will mean handling the shipment twice.

One time from US to UK Customs, and then again when it reaches the EU Customs.

So to me it would be sensible to ship only UK based pledges to the UK hub next time and ship EU mainlaind directly from the US to us.

It would mean just one time Customs and VAT on arrival.

 

I have no problem with that.

I do have a problem when it is unclear how Reaper will handle it because then we might get into a situation where we could have to pay taxes twice.

That is what was left in the open with some general statements this time.

I'm hoping that with Bones 5, Reaper will have a definite answer how this will be tackled.

 

If I know that I will have to pay VAT on arrival then I will know how much I can/will pledge.

If it is paid upfront and it is made certain that this will be all, I will know as well.

If it is unclear with the risk of paying twice, then it is over for me. In my current pledge for Bones IV it was paid upfront, luckily the Brexit doom scenario has not happened yet, but it could have meant an extra 150$ for me!

I do think you will agree that this is something we like to avoid.

 

I know I sound grumpy right now.

I'm not, I'm actually a huge fan of Reaper and the minis, I like to participate and I would like to do so again.

But for me to participate again, I need to see a solid strategy about shipping to the EU from the US or UK who will both be NON EU by then.

I think it is a legit question.

This time it was uncertain for all, so I could understand the vague statements, basically saying, we deal with it when it happens and trust us please.

But next time for Bones 5, this should be adressed, Brexit is coming, no doubt anymore it's just a matter of time, and it will happen during Bones 5 and fulfillment.

 

I'm very curious to see how this will be adressed.

I love Reaper, Love the products but the communication is not up to par.

And posting It is over is not cool when we are still waiting, I realize it is over for them, but it would show more empathy to non US backers to tone this down a bit.

It could have been worded a bit differently.

But maybe I'm too sensitive about this.

 

I have backed a few kickstarters, in fact am backing 4 right now.

Product and certainty of delivery are great with Reaper, but I have seen better communication than this.

I'm not trying to offend someone, I'm hoping Reaper Peeps will understand my concerns, I'm not the only one with such concerns.

If you don't take those concerns away, you might lose a group of potential backers for the next KS.

That would be a shame, because together we make this happen, right?

Or are we under the assumption that it will happen anyway with only US backers? If so, just make it a US KS only then.

 

These are my two cents.

I still am happy to have backed, I can wait and hope to be able to paint the awesome minis soon.

Still I feel like we were lucky this time with the postponing Brexit, so I hope Reaper will be prepared now.

 

Sorry if I offended anyone, that is not my intention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Glitterwolf
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17 minutes ago, Gadgetman! said:

One big issue with starting to sell Bones 4 items before every backer has received their pledges is 'what will they do if something sells out, and they then find that the boxes whipped to mainland EU or Australia is missing parts from those sets'?    

 

One very big reason why they shipped everything to Reaper HQ is that the minis are produced in lots. First a lot of one figure, then a lot of the next figure and so on. Keeping every type of mini accessble to pack individual pledges, or even for 'job lots' to be shipped to different fulfillment centers would be very expensive. (now it can be just shoved itn ocrates and loaded onto containers as they're finished. With job lots or individual pledges they'd need to rent a large area to do the repackaging)   

And no they can't do 'small runs' of each mini and ship off to a fulfillment center.  It takes time to swap the molds, then they need to run test pieces, adjust it and so on. Even with Chinese labour costs being as low as they are it's costly to run small jobs.   

 

If Reaper want to avoid the 'ship everything to Reaper HQ', they'll need to change the structure of these Kickstarters. 

No option for picking subsets of minis from the Core set being he most important one.

By the time the pledges arrive in Europe a second shipment is likely underway from China to US HQ anyway.  So if there are missing minis/parts.  Reaper would likely have its second wind so to speak from China.  (depending on what I guess)  or the distribution hubs would have their own stock by then.  As I assuming that their standard product goes from china directly to the hubs.  I do not know that as fact however.

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So, having gotten mine, a lot of excitement... and one big disappointment.

 

The new, harder grey material does seem to have a tendency to break in inopportune places, like the end of the ridge beam on Baba Yaga's hut and somewhere right smack in the middle of that angel of death statue's wing.

 

I do hope I was just unlucky and this is not a common occurrence, because if it is, this stuff might not do as well at retail as one might otherwise hope.

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2 minutes ago, Bane Of Humanity said:

By the time the pledges arrive in Europe a second shipment is likely underway from China to US HQ anyway.  So if there are missing minis/parts.  Reaper would likely have its second wind so to speak from China.  (depending on what I guess)  or the distribution hubs would have their own stock by then.  As I assuming that their standard product goes from china directly to the hubs.  I do not know that as fact however.

 

I hope you're right about this.

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As far as Brexit goes.  I dont think Reaper knows what or how they are going to do things.  
I will agree with you though.  Communication has been lacking since Reaper Byran left.

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15 minutes ago, Glitterwolf said:

Treat us all the same by putting it all in retail rightaway or putting it in retail when we all have received it.

 

How about "Treat us all the same by putting it all in retail when all the orders have been shipped?"

 

Though it's probably worth mentioning that:

  • Reaper doesn't "put[] it all in retail" for more than a year anyway, because they do their retail releases in monthly batches, not all at once.
  • Nothing can really be put into the retail stream until it's packaged for retail sale, which the stuff we received certainly hasn't been.

If I were Reaper (and I don't have any inside information), immediately upon finishing shipment, I'd start packaging the first dozen or two dozen SKUs for retail sale. And as soon as that's been done (which will take some time, btw), I'd start shipping to distributors.

 

And to be fair, as a Wave 1, first few minutes lock-in, I'd be irritated if people were able to buy product before I received my stuff. But it's not like they can buy it at the same price or get all the product before I do, so I would get over it. YMMV.

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6 minutes ago, Bane Of Humanity said:

As far as Brexit goes.  I dont think Reaper knows what or how they are going to do things.  
I will agree with you though.  Communication has been lacking since Reaper Byran left.

 

They do need a new PR guy.

 

Brexit, I think it could be very simple actually.

As a US based company selling stuff ot the EU, do like you always did and realize that you built a UK hub which is useless for that.

The UK hub is only interesting to ship directly from US to UK customers, nothing more after Brexit.

 

So just tell us we pledge, pay and then pay VAT according to our country.

Don't try to let us pay it upfront anymore because you can't promise us we won't have to pay it twice anymore.

Being clear about this is all we need.

 

IMHO Reaper should have built a HUB in one the big EU harbors like Rotterdam or Antwerp.

Then we wouldn't have had this problem.

 

2 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

How about "Treat us all the same by putting it all in retail when all the orders have been shipped?"

 

Though it's probably worth mentioning that:

  • Reaper doesn't "put[] it all in retail" for more than a year anyway, because they do their retail releases in monthly batches, not all at once.
  • Nothing can really be put into the retail stream until it's packaged for retail sale, which the stuff we received certainly hasn't been.

If I were Reaper (and I don't have any inside information), immediately upon finishing shipment, I'd start packaging the first dozen or two dozen SKUs for retail sale. And as soon as that's been done (which will take some time, btw), I'd start shipping to distributors.

 

And to be fair, as a Wave 1, first few minutes lock-in, I'd be irritated if people were able to buy product before I received my stuff. But it's not like they can buy it at the same price or get all the product before I do, so I would get over it. YMMV.

 

I understand what you're saying.

But what if something is wrong with my order ( Wave 1 EU) and then there is no replacement in stock because we just sold that in retail?

I do get what you say, and you're right about not everything being available of course.

But it still feels wrong if it happens after fulfilling the US pledges, instead of either rightaway or after all is fullfilled.

That is what bothers me, it makes me think EU customers are second rate customers.

Probably not Reaper's intention, but that's how it feels.

 

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19 minutes ago, Glitterwolf said:

 

I fully understand.

But the bold thing is not my problem, I don't mind other backers receiving their stuff before me.

I have a problem with selling it in retail before I get mine as a backer as happened with Boness III.

 

Treat us all the same by putting it all in retail rightaway or putting it in retail when we all have received it.I do understand we can't receive it all in the same time, or putting it in retail when we all have received it. Don't say it's over because only the US backers go their stuff.

It might be different for others of course, maybe not everybody cares about that.

 

I know I sound grumpy right now.

 

 

 

 

Being grumpy about not having your stuff when others do is a natural human response.  Life is not fair and that makes people unhappy.  I hope you get your order as soon as physically possible.  Many US and Canada residents are still waiting, too.  Heck, I was a wave 2 supporter and only got mine 2 days ago. 

 

It's not all going into retail right away.  It will be at least a month before the first release of a handful of figures goes out to stores, and a year before it is all out there.  Not even Bones 3 has been completely 100% released for sale. 

 

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17 hours ago, PaganMegan said:

27.50!

 

That's all?

 

We'll have to do better for Bones 5!

 

Svelte? Svelte?! That's anorexic! We need to do better!

 

But honey, it's not the size of the package, it's what you do with it.

 

Sorry, low hanging fruit. ::P:

 

The Auld Grump

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2 minutes ago, TheAuldGrump said:

 

But honey, it's not the size of the package, it's what you do with it.

 

Sorry, low hanging fruit. ::P:

 

The Auld Grump

Shouldn't it be
Its not the size of the package, its WHEN you get it.  

What?  too soon?

Edited by Bane Of Humanity
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11 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

How about "Treat us all the same by putting it all in retail when all the orders have been shipped?"

 

Though it's probably worth mentioning that:

  • Reaper doesn't "put[] it all in retail" for more than a year anyway, because they do their retail releases in monthly batches, not all at once.
  • Nothing can really be put into the retail stream until it's packaged for retail sale, which the stuff we received certainly hasn't been.

If I were Reaper (and I don't have any inside information), immediately upon finishing shipment, I'd start packaging the first dozen or two dozen SKUs for retail sale. And as soon as that's been done (which will take some time, btw), I'd start shipping to distributors.

 

And to be fair, as a Wave 1, first few minutes lock-in, I'd be irritated if people were able to buy product before I received my stuff. But it's not like they can buy it at the same price or get all the product before I do, so I would get over it. YMMV.

And the purpose of the Kickstarter was to get the Bones into the retail stream.

 

Though it does seem that international shipping - in general, not specific to Reaper - has been sliding down hill, with increased prices and less reliable service.

 

The Auld Grump

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9 minutes ago, Glitterwolf said:

IMHO Reaper should have built a HUB in one the big EU harbors like Rotterdam or Antwerp.

Then we wouldn't have had this problem.

 

Indeed; there would be a different problem instead.

  • If Reaper Europe were not in the UK, then any Brexit problems would still apply, but on shipments to the UK rather than to the continent. Historically, sales of gaming product from the US to Europe were very strongly biased toward sales to the UK. (I suspect, but do not know, that this is still the case.)
  • It's easier for a US company to do business in an English-speaking country with laws deriving from English common law (as US law derives) than in a non-English-speaking country with laws deriving from the Napoleonic Code.
  • And English culture is just easier for an American to adjust to than Continental culture, so it's much easier for an American employee to adjust both short-term and long-term.
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