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Reaper Bones 4: Enthusiasm and Commentary Thread

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29 minutes ago, Knight of the Dinner Table said:
52 minutes ago, Bane Of Humanity said:

KS comments reposted on the reaper forum

Scroll down until you find a post from Pochi.  This was also posted august 2017.  In the video they weren't sure.

Hm ... I did not understand that to mean you cannot remove the roof. I thought it meant "there is no interior sculpted, i.e. it's a blank space, not even texture on the walls" ...

 

 

Yes, that was my interpretation too: no sculpted interior. I still think the plan was to have a removable roof at that time. 

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4 hours ago, Paradoxical Mouse said:

Am I really the only one whose Baba Yaga hut showed up and was able to stand perfectly? I find it hard to believe, but I wonder if there were some major QC issues...or maybe packing order issues?

 

Mine had no issues at all. 

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The Bones Black changed the plan.  When they put this in the Bones Black the manufacturer did not understand that they wanted the roof and legs removable.  They had these set up so that they heated one part up and put on glue and forced them together.  (Great force from what I understand. ) The user would not have been able to put at least the legs on.  The roof was glued because of stability issues.  Probably would have broken in transit without it.  I am not going back to Reaper Live! like Chris to quote them, but that is how I remember the discussion. 

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I have been slowly going through my KS Rewards and so far have a few small issues to be corrected but so far, mostly good.

With all the problems people have reported with shipping damage on Mumlak I was afraid mine would be a mess due to UPS turning the box into a cardboard bag and the box lid being stove in on the expansion.

I am pleased to be able to report that not only did Mumlak survive the encounter but came through in pristine condition!

I do have a giant with a broken arm, that is a difficult enough break that it is going to be extremely difficult to get the parts to line up and stay together.

In my case the Chicken Hut has enough bend that it will do a forward roll as soon as additional support [hands] are removed from it.

Weighing in on the assembled/unassembled discussion, I have to give the caveat that I grew up with Erector Sets and Plastic Model Kits before starting in on a lifelong love affair with all things Model Railroad.

In the Model Railroad Hobby  you have everything from semi-scale ready to run models, high quality composite models that combine both metal and plastic to their best advantage to make superb quality models at affordable prices [for a given value of affordable], all the way up to brass models that are literally built by the companies who make high karat commercial jewelry as their main stock in trade and are mostly rivet for rivet accurate scale models of the real thing.  Kits range from "shake the box" that require very little in the way of tools and limited skills in order to assemble, all the way up to Craftsman Level Kits that require a high degree of skills in both metal and wood to assemble.

There's a place in the hobby for everyone, and the general progress is people start with things requiring limited skills and as their skills and confidence improves they move to more complex and difficult projects.  My personal skill level is such that I can produce a decent model [not necessarily show quality but something I don't need to hide in a closet] from most kits all the way up to board on board construction where individual scale building timbers are used with individual scale boards over for the exterior cladding [very tedious but makes for an outstanding model].

I see the miniature painting and collecting hobby going the same way.  If there is a market for more complex to assemble models then companies such as Reaper will produce them.  One of the ways I see they can help control costs is to use the resource provided by the internet to cut down on printing costs by producing the ephemera of assembly instructions as either downloadable pdf files or online picture files showing the various assembly steps.

From my 6 decades experience building model stuff I see the assembly portion of any miniatures project as just a step in the prep process of making a project ready for the finish to be applied, little different in mindset from the necessity to prep most items by treating them to get rid of mold release and then removing mold lines and flash.

It's a short step from removing mold lines to making small adjustments to the lines of a figure by shaving a little extra from here and there, then modifying details with a little careful exacto knife work,  and the next step becomes the use of Greenstuff to add material.  Small steps that add up to major increases in skill level.

I'm sure the assembled/unassembled debate will join the list of things such as prime/don't prime that will, as somebody has noted, still be debated three days past the conclusion of Ragnarok.

GEM

Twinkle Twinkle

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I think most people understand that the changes were made because they were essential for production to go ahead. I just personally think that they should have communicated this very clearly to give customers the choice wether changed product or no product would be appropriate for them. Reaper kind of made that choice for the customers and while I'm sure there are a lot of people that would say, well changed product is better than none, I think there would be a significant amount that would say none is better.

I see the bigger issue with the hut tbh. I can get over the scale of something being a bit off and maybe not looking quite as impressive on the table but I think many role players have a good enough imagination already to make that work.

The hut I'm sure is a bit annoying to people now though. With removable legs and roof it would have been working in so many scenarios but without well....that narrows it really down. Personally I'm not that bothered about stuff like that as I'm mostly in for the painting but for someone that was looking for a versatile piece of scenery it must have been quite disappointing.

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5 hours ago, OneBoot said:

I'm not sure if this has been posted in this thread (if it has, I'm having trouble finding it again), but here's the full explanation for why Argent was shrunk, and why the barge lost its water base: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbrogWjRtNw&feature=youtu.be&t=2185

 

Long story short, those models were originally going to be scrapped due to MAJOR cost overrun (original Argent would have cost twice what Reaper had planned to manufacture ). However, Ron apparently threw a fit and so they did some figuring and determined that by dropping the base from the barge, and shrinking Argent by 30%, that Reaper could still produce the models, rather than simply refunding everyone who had pledged for one.

 

This does change my feelings about the changes some, especially knowing that smaller Argent was the solution to "no Argent at all"; I just wish it had been communicated earlier so I could have managed my expectations before it arrived. 

 

Huzzah!

--OneBoot :D

 

First of all, I'm happy they managed to produce it all.

As been said before, it would have been a wise choice to communicate and maybe even offer backers to opt out on those models if they wanted.

 

To me, the Barge I would still have pledged for ( I pledged for two) the Hut I would still pledge for ( I pledged for one, I will mutilate it so the legs come off and will reposition the gibbet where it should be. Argent I would have dropped.

 

As it is now I'm considering cutting Argent up and use his neck/head as a bust.

 

Edited by Glitterwolf
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Of course I agree that I'd rather have a Barge without a base than none at all. And I guess people feel in a similar way about the dragon. I'm not sure I would have bought the Hut if I had known about the legs and the roof not being easily removable.

But - despite the "Risks" section on the KS main page - I feel such changes need good communications. It's simply poor form to change things and then say "Well, look at the risks section". They told us about the base of the Barge very soon (though as far as I remember not that it might get scrapped completely otherwise), but the other changes were not communicated well. KS IS about trust and while Reaper has earned quite a bit of it with the way they are generally handling their Kickstarters, such trust is also easily squandered.

I have started to back some projects only with a dollar and get the rest in a pledge manager where I can see the shipping costs (been burned too often now). I know that this way my money does not contribute to stretch goals, but I also feel that some companies give a shipping estimate that is so off it's laughable (like "The estimate was just for the base pledge without the stretch goals" when it is absolutely clear that this project will hit lots of stretch goals).

To be clear - Reaper is not among those companies.

 

But ... I might also back the next Bones KS only with a dollar and add what I want in the pledge manager a day before it closes so I can at least take all the communicated changes into account. I do not think Reaper wants to encourage such behavior as it hurts the project when many people do that. It diminishes the success of the project (less stretch goals), it increases their uncertainty (I only log in all my stuff on the very last possible day).

 

Therefore I hope they stand by their promise to improve their communications again.

 

(if this post comes across as overly critical, I apologize ... I've got 50+ hour working weeks at the moment, a runny nose and an open-air gig to play this evening ...with outside temperatures around 10 degrees Celsius)

Edited by Knight of the Dinner Table
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6 hours ago, OneBoot said:

I'm not sure if this has been posted in this thread (if it has, I'm having trouble finding it again), but here's the full explanation for why Argent was shrunk, and why the barge lost its water base: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbrogWjRtNw&feature=youtu.be&t=2185

 

Long story short, those models were originally going to be scrapped due to MAJOR cost overrun (original Argent would have cost twice what Reaper had planned to manufacture ). However, Ron apparently threw a fit and so they did some figuring and determined that by dropping the base from the barge, and shrinking Argent by 30%, that Reaper could still produce the models, rather than simply refunding everyone who had pledged for one.

 

This does change my feelings about the changes some, especially knowing that smaller Argent was the solution to "no Argent at all"; I just wish it had been communicated earlier so I could have managed my expectations before it arrived. 

 

Huzzah!

--OneBoot :D

we understand that. but i think they also could have asked if ppl would be willing to add extra funds to cover it.  If not enough people would, fine, shrink it.  KInda an extension of letting people know.   this isnt new in kickstarters.  ANother option would be doing the wings in resin since the wings were the major issue it appears.  Again, other kickstarters have done stuff like this before to keep models the same, but change materials as needed due to cost.

 

Just some thoughts/ideas.

 

Regards,

 

Sanjay

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On the communications front, most of us back many Kickstarter projects at a time. I have roughly a dozen open right now. As a result we see a variety of different levels of communication from those other projects. Many projects send out succinct updates when a change has to be made for whatever reasons.

 

Letting your customers discover changes on their own, after the fact, isn’t wise as evidenced by the amount of frustration being vented.

 

I agree that the value of what I get from Reaper via Kickstarter is AMAZING! I love the folks that work there and have a blast at Reapercon each year. 

 

I do get the impression that 99% of the communication comes from Ed or Ron. It can be difficult to let go of that kind of control. Therein may be the problem. 

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Had no idea the Barge was suppose to have a base. Totally fine with it not having one, doesn't need it. Happy they kept the Barge and Argent (didn't get it), but they do need to be better and communication.

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41 minutes ago, Adrift said:

I do get the impression that 99% of the communication comes from Ed or Ron. It can be difficult to let go of that kind of control. Therein may be the problem. 

I think that putting those guys out front as the voice of the business was a mistake. Anyone who feels like there is a communication problem can now easily make the leap to linking that feeling to the honchos in charge. I hope they get a new "face" for their communications before Mystery Project launches.

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