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Reaper Bones 4: Enthusiasm and Commentary Thread

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19 minutes ago, Disciple of Sakura said:

Well, FWIW, I stand corrected about Reaper getting worse. A ballpark review of the Bones KSs I've participated in, and Bones 4 is slightly better than Bones 3, assuming it does begin fulfillment next month...

 

Ending date of KS vs fulfillment beginning.
Bones 2 Oct 26, 2013 - Feb 9, 2015  ~ 15.5 months
Bones 3 July 25, 2015 - May 22, 2017 ~ 22 months
Bones 4 Sept 2, 2017 - April ?, 2019  ~ 20 months

 

Thanks for checking, I thought that there was more time budgeted for Bones 4 than 3, but if they are similar then that makes sense.  I think Bones 4 has more ambitious large pieces like Baba Yaga's hut and Dance if Death, too.

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I don't know much about shipping containers. Am looking forward to getting a large box of plastic shortly.

 

There is a new skirmish game coming out called "Thud and Blunder" from the "Ministry of Gentlemanly Warfare". It is quite 'low fluff' and encourages you to build a warband from the models you have. I have started thinking about which sets from Bones 4 would be good as warbands. Am thinking of a bandit warband from the core set and dreadmere, a goblin horde with trolls in support, and some knights and retainers. 

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30 minutes ago, LittleBluberry said:

 

Thanks for checking, I thought that there was more time budgeted for Bones 4 than 3, but if they are similar then that makes sense.  I think Bones 4 has more ambitious large pieces like Baba Yaga's hut and Dance if Death, too.

Yeah, I thought that Bones 4 was set to fulfill with the full fulfillment time of Bones 3 in its timeframe, but apparently it was reduced a bit, or maybe my math is wrong somehow...

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55 minutes ago, Disciple of Sakura said:

Well, FWIW, I stand corrected about Reaper getting worse. A ballpark review of the Bones KSs I've participated in, and Bones 4 is slightly better than Bones 3, assuming it does begin fulfillment next month...

 

Ending date of KS vs fulfillment beginning.
Bones 2 Oct 26, 2013 - Feb 9, 2015  ~ 15.5 months
Bones 3 July 25, 2015 - May 22, 2017 ~ 22 months
Bones 4 Sept 2, 2017 - April ?, 2019  ~ 20 months

A better measure would be to compare the Estimated Fulfillment Date with the Actual Fulfillment dates. You comparison above ignores Reapers incorporation of Lessons Learned in their dealings with the manufacturers.

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1 hour ago, Maredudd said:

A better measure would be to compare the Estimated Fulfillment Date with the Actual Fulfillment dates. You comparison above ignores Reapers incorporation of Lessons Learned in their dealings with the manufacturers.

So, I was saying that my prior statement that they've taken longer to fulfill Bones 4 than even Bones 3 means they're getting worse was incorrect. I was pointing out that, overall, Bones 4 is still apparently a shorter fulfillment time than Bones 3. If I was just to compare how late their fulfillment was between each KS, account for how they've been extending their lead, that brings us back to the fact that they are still late, despite supposedly learning from their mistakes and giving themselves a longer lead time to fulfillment than any prior KS. I'm not sure if that's supposed to make them look better or worse, TBH.

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I think @LittleBluberry is right - for any proper estimation, we need to take into account how ambitious the goals are. We should factor in the number of large tricky models in this one to previous KS, the total number of models, and the addition of a (generally) improved material.  

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2 minutes ago, Cyradis said:

I think @LittleBluberry is right - for any proper estimation, we need to take into account how ambitious the goals are. We should factor in the number of large tricky models in this one to previous KS, the total number of models, and the addition of a (generally) improved material.  

 

Honestly I think they were pushing the boundaries a little with each project, it's just hard to remember where those boundaries were once we're past them.  Bones Black is a pretty far cry from the Verocithrax issue where they had to add a metal piece just to help it stay upright.  

 

In reality my irritation with the delay is minor, and I get as interested in the process of development as I am in the sculpting and design.  Which is part of why I get excited about Kickstarter projects in the first place, it's just the pain as I wince in sympathy when obstacles are plowed into that sucks.  

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I think we also need to factor in that Reaper changed production to Bones Black for many of the minis during the project. 

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Bones 3: 157 Core, largest items were some generically big ogres. 32 Add-ons, including 2 paint sets, and 4 add-ons that were at or over $20 each (as a basic gauge for size/difficulty). 3 Expansions, estimating similar magnitude to B4 each. 

Bones 2: 133 Core, the largest item was the burrowing horror. 25 Add-ons, including 2 paint sets, 1 paint case set, and 3 add-ons at or over $20 each. 3 Expansions, estimating smaller on average than B4. 

Bones 1: 202 Core models, largest was the griffon (I think), and smallest were familiars. 25 Add-ons, including 3 paint sets, 1 add-on over $20 each (Kaladrax was not - but probably should have been), and 1 paint case set. No expansions. 

 

Bones 4: 160 Core, largest item is Gauth, but there are several chunky figures like an owlbear and griffon in there. 34 Add-ons, including 2 paint sets, and 7 add-ons that were at or over $20 each (and more than others at the $15-18 mark). 5 Expansions (38, 43, 45, 36, 35 models respectively). 

 

Some of this is me just counting, which I'm not great at, but given some margin of error on my arithmetic skills, we have an estimate on how ambitious each project is. 

 

This was a much bigger project, as far as I can tell. It is the only Core set to have a Big Item, and the largest since Bones 1. There are more add-ons, and significantly more big add-ons. More expansions, more hefty add-ons..... AND they are doing a new material for some of these! 

 

Considering this, I think that the current schedule with delays, is proving that they *did* learn from previous experience, and are doing more with a similar amount of time. Unless this drags out ridiculously longer for a single box, this is pretty darn good. From what I'm hearing from those who have worked in manufacturing or engineering, a delay due to shipping is the least of the problems that could occur. 

 

I think they missed a few Diplomacy skill checks with the updates, as they gave some mixed messages at times. But really, they have a handful of nerds making toys, not a bunch of diplomats or journal editors. I dare say most of us couldn't do much better without help. 

Edited by Cyradis
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I think I want to paint my dice minis in sparky colours. Hadn't really considered gendering them much. 

 

Though, it occurs to me that if they were translucent, they'd look really cool as gem dice.

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38 minutes ago, redambrosia said:

I think I want to paint my dice minis in sparky colours. Hadn't really considered gendering them much. 

 

Though, it occurs to me that if they were translucent, they'd look really cool as gem dice.

 

Some are obviously dude dice, and none are obviously ladies. That made me sad, so I'm going to fem up at least one. 

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6 minutes ago, Cyradis said:

 

Some are obviously dude dice, and none are obviously ladies. That made me sad, so I'm going to fem up at least one. 

I'm not sure how they'd be made to exhibit any real "female" gender identifiers based on design constraints, but I see your point.

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5 minutes ago, Disciple of Sakura said:

I'm not sure how they'd be made to exhibit any real "female" gender identifiers based on design constraints, but I see your point.

 

I'd think lips or eyelashes, sort of like the Green M&M.  I'm okay with breasts on Dragonborn, but they'd be a bit much on Diceborn.

Just now, Cyradis said:

Are you familiar with M&Ms? 

 

Image result for green m&m

Image result for red m&m

 

Cyradis, I had to edit this for our creepy timing of the M&M comparison.

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She is a female disk candy and an iconic part of ridiculous American advertising. If she can be obviously she, a few dice could be too! 

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