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themudhead

Reapercon MSP Open - Metal vs Bones

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Since modifying Bones minis are so easy compared with Metal, will the Open category of the painting competition be modified for Difficulty, Workmanship, and Creativity to reflect these differences?

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From : https://reapercon.com/contest 

 

Open Division

This Open Division includes converted and/or scratch-sculpted entries where the exhibitor understands that all aspects of the entry are judged. While unmodified or stock models might be found as part of a diorama or vignette, a single unmodified or stock model, regardless of the basing of the entry, will not be found in this division unless the exhibitor was also the sculptor of the original model.

Whereas the Painter’s division is predominately judged on the painting skill, entries in the Open division are judged more evenly for Difficulty, Creativity, Workmanship, Painting Skill and Presentation. So in order to reach a maximum score many more criteria need to be addressed.

 

Here’s a breakdown of the criteria and the % amounts the judges consider when judging a piece in the Open Division. The judges use these percentages as a guide to base their final determination on the placing of the piece.

 

Difficulty 15%

Creativity 10%

Workmanship 30%

Painting Skill 30%

Presentation 15%

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2 hours ago, ub3r_n3rd said:

From : https://reapercon.com/contest 

 

Open Division

This Open Division includes converted and/or scratch-sculpted entries where the exhibitor understands that all aspects of the entry are judged. While unmodified or stock models might be found as part of a diorama or vignette, a single unmodified or stock model, regardless of the basing of the entry, will not be found in this division unless the exhibitor was also the sculptor of the original model.

Whereas the Painter’s division is predominately judged on the painting skill, entries in the Open division are judged more evenly for Difficulty, Creativity, Workmanship, Painting Skill and Presentation. So in order to reach a maximum score many more criteria need to be addressed.

 

Here’s a breakdown of the criteria and the % amounts the judges consider when judging a piece in the Open Division. The judges use these percentages as a guide to base their final determination on the placing of the piece.

 

Difficulty 15%

Creativity 10%

Workmanship 30%

Painting Skill 30%

Presentation 15%

 

 

Yep, I've seen this. But I know it is much simpler to modify bones minis, and/or resin minis, as opposed to metal ones. I asked if there will be a difference in scoring on the difficulty, creativity, or workmanship of the model in question regarding its material?

 

It would be nice to know so I don't go wasting time and money on metal minis when I can get the same scores with bones plastic, and have a much easier time doing the conversions.

 

Or not.

 

Come to think about it, since I don't have to worry about dropping the model, Painting Skill is easier too...

 

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Just now, themudhead said:

 

 

Yep, I've seen this. But I know it is much simpler to modify bones minis, and/or resin minis, as opposed to metal ones. I asked if there will be a difference in scoring on the difficulty, creativity, or workmanship of the model in question regarding its material?

 

It would be nice to know so I don't go wasting time on metal minis when I can get the same scores with bones plastic, and have a much easier time doing the conversions.

 

Or not.

 

 

I'm sure that is figured during the difficulty portion of the scoring. They aren't going to change their scoring simply because bones are a tad bit easier to modify. A lot of us modify resin or metal without many problems. Really, bones is just easier to cut than the other materials, but to get the right fight between differing parts/materials, some sculpting is still required to blend the areas together and fill gaps that happen, which again is already part of the scoring. 

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47 minutes ago, ub3r_n3rd said:

I'm sure that is figured during the difficulty portion of the scoring. They aren't going to change their scoring simply because bones are a tad bit easier to modify. A lot of us modify resin or metal without many problems. Really, bones is just easier to cut than the other materials, but to get the right fight between differing parts/materials, some sculpting is still required to blend the areas together and fill gaps that happen, which again is already part of the scoring. 

 

 

... a tad bit easier to modify, it is written... easier to cut, it is written...

 

It is also easier to assemble. Super glue will hold the weight of a bones appendage much better than metal too, so no need for pinning in every situation, especially when gap filling is required.

 

This is what I'm asking... Are these differences, calculated in judging, enough to make a difference in the final score? 

 

I'm hoping for a better answer than opinions. They have changed their rules before (which I won't get into), and with emerging technology (bones), they may do so again, given circumstances, as everything is mutable... The last time was after the competition. I'm hoping to "head them off at the pass" (pardon the pun), so to speak.... or at least offer food for thought for the future...

 

Thanks.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, themudhead said:

 

 

... a tad bit easier to modify, it is written... easier to cut, it is written...

 

It is also easier to assemble. Super glue will hold the weight of a bones appendage much better than metal too, so no need for pinning in every situation, especially when gap filling is required.

 

This is what I'm asking... Are these differences, calculated in judging, enough to make a difference in the final score? 

 

I'm hoping for a better answer than opinions. They have changed their rules before (which I won't get into), and with emerging technology (bones), they may do so again, given circumstances, as everything is mutable... The last time was after the competition. I'm hoping to "head them off at the pass" (pardon the pun), so to speak.... or at least offer food for thought for the future...

 

Thanks.

 

 

Bones have been out for what... 4-5 years now? They don't hold the same detail that a metal or resin figure does, and let us not forget that the finished product needs to look good too. The painting of it and being able to paint crisper details helps up the score too. Obviously, I'm giving my opinion here, but really the way they have it set now seems just fine to me. I really don't see people changing over to bones wholesale in this category just because it is a little bit easier to modify, at least not enough to warrant the reevaluation of scoring criteria when you have plenty of other areas that help make up the whole of the criteria. 

Edited by ub3r_n3rd
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So, I have not judged this category (I'm typically in Painters and Diorama), nor am I in any way an official spokesman for Reaper, so please take my answer with a grain of salt.  That being said, I think I speak for all the judges when I say that the material of the miniature (be it resin, metal, Bones, or plastic) is not very important when it comes to your entry.  What is really important is the skill you display as an overall practitioner of the miniature arts, no matter the material of your miniature!  If you did your job well, I should be able to look at your little work of art without wondering (or even caring) what material it is made out of.

 

In my mind, while Bones may offer some advantages in the realm of limb chopping, they offer some disadvantages in a few other areas (just like every material has its own strengths and weaknesses).  So, just do the art that you want to do, and do it to the best of your ability, and that will prove far more important than what material your miniature is made out of!  ::):

 

Happy converting!!!

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Hello all.  Sorry it has taken me so long to comment.  Many already know one of my roles at RCON for the last few years has been the  ED (executive director) of the reaper MSP painting contest at RCON.  

 

Great question about Bones versus metal conversions.  While Bones may be easier to cut  up compared to metal I think the conversion of and of rejoining pieces is very similar (metal v Bones).  Skill is required to bring the composition together regardless of medium.  It really comes down to the end result of the piece and how the judges feel the piece meets the categories listed in the messages above.  

 

I would also also like to second what Kuro said.   "Do the art you want to do". 

 

 

 

 

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On September 27, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Clever Crow said:

Hello all.  Sorry it has taken me so long to comment.  Many already know one of my roles at RCON for the last few years has been the  ED (executive director) of the reaper MSP painting contest at RCON.  

 

Great question about Bones versus metal conversions.  While Bones may be easier to cut  up compared to metal I think the conversion of and of rejoining pieces is very similar (metal v Bones).  Skill is required to bring the composition together regardless of medium.  It really comes down to the end result of the piece and how the judges feel the piece meets the categories listed in the messages above.  

 

I would also also like to second what Kuro said.   "Do the art you want to do". 

 

 

 

 

 

As I feared. sigh...

 

Goodbye.

 

 

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On 9/28/2017 at 10:42 PM, themudhead said:

 

As I feared. sigh...

 

Goodbye.

 

 

I guess I don't understand this. Judging any competition is very subjective, but it comes down to did you pull it off or didn't you. In the end the material is irrelevant. We are not comparing your work to someone else's work, it is based on what you did and how well you executed the conversion. A sloppy joint is a sloppy joint regardless of whether its a conversion of metal, plastic or resin or even a from scratch piece.

 

I'm also not sure about what upsets you about rules changes. The basic rules for the competition as it exists now have not changed extensively at all. We have refined them over time but at the heart of them they are basically the same.

 

Now that I think about it, perhaps your question is on complexity rather than material, in which case a more complex conversion that is well done is going to score better than a simple conversion.

Edited by Heisler
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