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I haven't seen any of Archon's HIPS yet, but I would like to.  I think that plastic is better for the retail market anyway, and it looks to me like that's going to make up a big portion of their financial plan going forward.

I think it is good to see that Ninja Division is willing to let some things go to others who will fulfill.  I know Archon's reputation is (deservedly) shady, but I think this will likely get things into the hands of backers, and on the shelves where the rest of us can pick them up.

 

 

I still wonder if AVP's issues were largely due to the normal early Kickstarter problems (didn't charge enough, scope got out of control, etc).  It looks like Archon is going to use a similar plan to fulfill this Kickstarter (simultaneously produce new miniatures alongside the Kickstarter ones).

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2 hours ago, odinsgrandson said:

I haven't seen any of Archon's HIPS yet, but I would like to.

If you are in the UK and dont mind spending £5 you can pick up the Starcide mini that was given out at Salute this year, i can not fault it and i would say while the detail isnt quite GW but its still pretty good, probably similar detail to Mantics new hard plastic sprued minis or Renedra's Shieldwolf minis which i cant fault for detail either.

 

FYI Archon was giving out free samples of the Dungeons and Lazers sprues via the D&L newsletter this week and it seemed to have a few wall/floor pieces and a companion from what i can make out, i am not 100% sure i can post the link as it might break forum rules!

*Edit, I just looked at the D&L link and the 1st page it takes you too just asks for your details so they can ship it out, there are no shop part on that link, the 2nd link from the 1st takes you to the D&L preview website also no shop, its the 3rd link from the 2nd that takes you to Archons actual webstore, Does anyone know if i post the 1st link, will it break the "no links to other companies webstores" rule?

Edited by Original Timmy
trying to find out if i can post link
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7 hours ago, odinsgrandson said:

I haven't seen any of Archon's HIPS yet, but I would like to.  I think that plastic is better for the retail market anyway, and it looks to me like that's going to make up a big portion of their financial plan going forward.

I think it is good to see that Ninja Division is willing to let some things go to others who will fulfill.  I know Archon's reputation is (deservedly) shady, but I think this will likely get things into the hands of backers, and on the shelves where the rest of us can pick them up.

 

 

I still wonder if AVP's issues were largely due to the normal early Kickstarter problems (didn't charge enough, scope got out of control, etc).  It looks like Archon is going to use a similar plan to fulfill this Kickstarter (simultaneously produce new miniatures alongside the Kickstarter ones).

 

AVP's big problems were a combination of the standard underestimating time and costs along with some super bad lines of communication with the IP holder. Everything needed back and forth approvals and it seemed like no one in either company ever set up a good way to handle the back and forth.

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On 7/26/2019 at 8:27 PM, cmorse said:

 

AVP's big problems were a combination of the standard underestimating time and costs along with some super bad lines of communication with the IP holder. Everything needed back and forth approvals and it seemed like no one in either company ever set up a good way to handle the back and forth.

Communications, period.

 

Never contacting the many, many people that had pledged and not received ANYTHING.

 

After the whirlwind tour of the history, I will never deal with either company. :grr:

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Paizo made an interesting comment about this situation in their blog. Very glad they clarified the situation a little more. The first line is a quote from another community member there. Sounds like firm confirmation that a nw licensing agreement was made. 

 

fgXhtKG.png

 

So Archon definitely got the licence. Guessing they got it for a steal, too. Paizo was over the proverbial barrel. Ninja Division was sucking the trust out of many of Starfinder's most dedicated and willing-to-spend customers. It is a little baffling that Paizo licenced Starfinder to such a shifty company, only to turn it over to another shifty company. That said, Archon is better than Ninja Division. More or less. :unsure:

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they had, reputedly, shopped it around to larger companies but didn't get any interest

 

after all it was a new game and the minis had limited cross over appeal unlike, for example, if they had been for a fantasy RPG where they could expect to sell a decent chunk of stuff into the D&D market and many other systems, SF stuff is just not as flexible the races/looks/weapons etc tend to be a lot more specific,

 

so Ninja Division might have been what looked like a reasonable choice (or at least a potentially viable one given that they clearly didn't want to do it themselves)

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23 hours ago, PaganMegan said:

Communications, period.

 

Never contacting the many, many people that had pledged and not received ANYTHING.

 

After the whirlwind tour of the history, I will never deal with either company. :grr:

 

I was referring to what their problem was rather than what backer's problems with them were. Really two different things. Lots of reasons not to support them going forward though.

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The more I interact with Paizo, the more my operational expectations for them are lowered--they're not going to communicate well (most of the time), they're not going to be organized about how they approach a problem, they're probably not the people you want vetting another company to make sure it's "real."

 

But they do feel bad when they screw up, they're pissed off when customers are pissed off, and when you say bad things about them they take it personally because they really care. And while it's not enough to make me believe that they've thoroughly vetted Archon and Archon is going to deliver on the Kickstarter, it's a lot better than nothing. And when you do get one of their releases in hand, they mostly do good work. (I haven't finished reading through the PF2 rules yet so I'm reserving judgment there. Looks like they fixed a lot of nagging issues we had from the playtest though.)

 

Regardless, I'm kind of impressed they found anyone willing to take this dumpster fire on. 

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I feel like Paizo is a good kid that makes poor choices about the friends they keep. They seem like they’re trying to do the right thing, but keep associating themselves with other companies that either don’t end up delivering or have other issues that would not make me want to associate with them (and often with massive red flags up front).

 

i like Paizo, but can no longer trust them on anything that involves them partnering up with another company.

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On 8/1/2019 at 6:44 AM, terminalmancer said:

The more I interact with Paizo, the more my operational expectations for them are lowered--they're not going to communicate well (most of the time), they're not going to be organized about how they approach a problem, they're probably not the people you want vetting another company to make sure it's "real."

 

But they do feel bad when they screw up, they're pissed off when customers are pissed off, and when you say bad things about them they take it personally because they really care. And while it's not enough to make me believe that they've thoroughly vetted Archon and Archon is going to deliver on the Kickstarter, it's a lot better than nothing. And when you do get one of their releases in hand, they mostly do good work. (I haven't finished reading through the PF2 rules yet so I'm reserving judgment there. Looks like they fixed a lot of nagging issues we had from the playtest though.)

 

Regardless, I'm kind of impressed they found anyone willing to take this dumpster fire on. 

 

I cannot like this enough....it is like you came into my head and are able to articulate my thoughts.  I am reasonably invested in their Organised Play program (I am a VL), but I get so frustrated with their organisational skills.

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23 hours ago, Sanwah said:

 

I cannot like this enough....it is like you came into my head and are able to articulate my thoughts.  I am reasonably invested in their Organised Play program (I am a VL), but I get so frustrated with their organisational skills.

 

Thanks. Ironically enough, I'm a VL too, so I'm in the same boat... at least for the moment.

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7 hours ago, Sanwah said:

Nice to meet a fellow VL.

 

Not so nice to see that after the initial flurry of posts on the day of the announcement, the KS has gone back to radio silence...

I'm getting the impression we're going to be spending some quality forum time together on another forum on another Paizo-related topic, heh. Maybe Paizo was just not the best company for Ninja Division to model their communications after.

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It's kinda sad to see a semi-local company fail so badly in realm of gaming. Ninja Division is based in Garden City, ID (suburb of Boise) which is roughly 40 mins from here. Also, sad to see the only time they've made the news here was when the ID state attorney filed against them due to all their failure to fulfill KSes came against them.

 

old news (Feb 2019)

 

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/business/article225610455.html

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