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Need help starting CAV army


rhino-tamer
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hellow I am getting into cav and and like I said would like some advice and I have looked through alot of the pages and didnt find anything.

Okay I have a couple Ideas my first one was Im pretty sure I want the starter set. Now 1 one my questions is do I need more than that. Okay that leads to the second thing If I do need more I have a couple things I have selected

1)scorpian 07010*

2)a set of dragonflys 07094*

3)sovereign 07018*

4)mastodon 07039*

5)spider 07038

6)duelest 07054

7)wryven 07036

8)conqueror 07023

9)morters 07032 & 07033*

and the Hedgehog07026 or Badger07058 wich is better

 

 

these are the thing I might get all the ones with stars I have tried out and loved. the others I have questions about. Is the spider similar to the scorpian? how good are the duelests guns? does the wryven have good movement and guns? is the conqueror like the sovereign?

my last question is should I just get jor1&2 before getting anything else

 

P.S. thankyou very much If you dont have time Please come back. ::D:

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Hola R-T

 

good idea gettin' the starter kit. Its a great bang fer yer buck. And you'll want to get JoR I and II (the second book being mostly vehicles for combine arms) as soon as you can the cash for them. Both are great.

 

I personally love the duelist ( and all the H-M stuff) And ya can't go wrong with one.

 

the Conqueror and the soveriegn III (another H-M unit) are very simular as far as weapons. The Soveriegn III has better armor and speed I beleive but costs more points to field.

 

Anyway welcome aboard and keep yer head low... :B):

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Hi there!

 

I like the Sovereign, grouped with 3 Heavy Mortar infantry. One thing to remember about CAV is that units are customizable (are those rules only in the JOR?). So I advocate adding a Chainlock pod to the Sovereign. That makes a very good IF section.

 

The Duelist is a great unit (IMO), with decent speed, good armor, and good guns. It's also my favorite ECCM equiped unit, because it won't be destroyed in one round (usually:D). The Mastodon is cool. It has the most powerful gun in the game, and with an experienced WSO has a chance of critically hitting any hard target in the game on any round. It only has one gun, tho, so a little bad rolling makes it useless.

 

If you have a lot of terrain to hide in the Scorpion is great. It can run out and shoot, then hide. So it will take defensive fire, but if played right can avoid getting target locked for a long stretch of game. That can be huge.

 

The Spider is a missile pack unit, and I'm not particularly fond of it, which is too bad because I think it looks cool. The Wyvern isn't that hot either. It's not really great at anything, and it's not versatile enough to make up for that flaw. If you want to shoot guns at people, get a Dictator (or Gladiator or Mantis, which are both better but more points). If you really want that IFM, get a dedicated unit that does it well. If you want a unit that can fight hard and soft targets, get a Challenger or Starhawk. In short, there's nothing a Wyvern does that something else doesn't do better.

 

I think the hedgehog and the badger are a wash. Both have the 3 unit carrying capacity. The Hedgehog is a little faster and the Badger has one more damage track and slightly better armor but it costs more. Don't worry about the weapons on either one, since those units are there for shooting. If you get either of these APCs, unpgrade their ECM computer. That will go a long way towards keeping them alive. Another thing to consider are the Fenri and Merlin transport gunships, which can move one light stand and fight quite well.

 

PS

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1)scorpian 07010*

2)a set of dragonflys 07094*

3)sovereign 07018*

4)mastodon 07039*

5)spider 07038

6)duelest 07054

7)wryven 07036

8)conqueror 07023

9)morters 07032 & 07033*

As others have said the Scorpion is a reasonably stealthy unit. It's low profile means it'll escape getting shot at in some situations because it's totally hidden from DF weapons. However, it's only got 1 gun, which does put it at a disadvantage. So, unless you really want the ability to ignore rough terrain (Scorpion and Spider only) or you really want that low profile (urban setting perhaps) then I'd save my points and buy something that can actually hit hard.

 

To that end, the Duelist is a good unit to have lying around. It'd good armour and 6DT's means it's a complete git to put down. It does have some downsides though... it's not as fast as many other front line Superirority CAV's (Mantis, Wight, Dictator) and it doesn't have any missile packs.... 2 guns is all you've got. The speed thing can be negated by removing the ECCM pod (I rarely use them anyway) and upgrade the movement. This actually makes the unit cheaper :o)

 

The Wyvern, as Storminator mentioned, doesn't stand out from anything else and is in fact a rather plain and mediocre unit. The Dictator is literally 5 points more than the Wyvern, so you can spend 5 points or so and get a CAV with those nice +6 guns. The Mantis is definately a better choice, in my opinion, since it's a pure Superiority CAV of the first order. Good guns, good missiles, good armour, good speed, 5DT's (so not too easy to kill but not too expensive either) and at 343 points, it's worth every one. It does have a slight power problem, but go against the fluff and put the Wyvern's breeder inside and you have a unit with as much resiliance to power loss as possible.

 

The Spider, Conqueror and Sovereign are dedicated missile CAV's. They have large IFM packs which, when combined into a single section and give one of them a chain lock then you have a really nasty bombardment unit.

 

The Sovereign and Conqueror are the longest range units in the game, so you'll be able to reach out and touch someone from a long way off. However, the Spider, not only being a low slung little guy and so being hard to hit and having the ability to ignore rough terrain, has the best anti-soft IFM in the punch (AoE 4, +2/+4). All are good at the job, and it's really a matter of taste. The Spider is the cheapest because it hasn't quite got the range, but it makes up in other areas (like speed). The Conqueror is a good middle of the road, since it's slower but has the range advantage. The Sovereign, while being very good, does suffer from higher points (30 or so) because it's a 5DT CAV while the other two are only 4. In a missile CAV, I prefer the 4 myself :o)

 

Mortars.... definately. Get lots. They rock! Their range is low, but they have high modifiers against all kinds of targets, so they'll hurt most things. I like trios of double heavy mortars with a spotter (one of the above missile CAV's with a chain lock) as Super CAV killers :o)

 

The Mastodon. This is, like most Supers, a double edged sword. Yes, it has that massive gun. But it only has one of them, it's also sloooowwwww and it'll be a big target. Did I mention that I, and others I play with, use mortars as Super killers? Well, the Mastodon dies very easy to this, without ever getting a shot off. I suppose it comes down to style, but since I have some I very rarely use the Mastodon :o)

 

In terms of air power, I'd recommend 4 units. The Tsuiseki and Harpy both have incredibly good weapons in terms of hard target (CAV's and tanks) killing ability and can do it with impunity pretty much. The Dragonfly is a good light all round gunship, as it can hurt CAV's or other gunships if it has too (they all can I guess). The last one is probably the Ghast or the Kikyu as both are lethal to soft targets :o) They work well as fighters or interceptors.

 

APC's. The Badger and Hedgehog, while having served CAV players well for a while, have now been replaced. They were obsolete to begin with (very low ECM meant they were cannon and IFM bait) and the light armaments hurt them too. However, they have established the classes of APC we have. The light APC, like the Hedgehog, is fast and slightly easier to kill (2DT). However, it's good to get the infantry to where they need to be. This role is best done by the Lynx. This APC is available in the shops, and it's quite good. It's 95 points (the Hedgehog is 90) and it's just as fast but has effective offensive weapons and has electronics (ECM and TL) on par with CAV's and such so it can defend itself and resist locks.

 

The heavy APC, one with 3DT's and slightly more weapons, used to be the Badger. It's slower than a light one, but lasts longer in a firefight. This role I'd suggest you use either the Czar or the Baron. They're also possessing effective electronics and weapons and the points cost for both is still less than the Badger :o)

 

I hope this helps. If not, ask some more Q's and we'll see if we can answer them :o)

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The heavy APC, one with 3DT's and slightly more weapons, used to be the Badger. It's slower than a light one, but lasts longer in a firefight. This role I'd suggest you use either the Czar or the Baron. They're also possessing effective electronics and weapons and the points cost for both is still less than the Badger :o)

 

I hope this helps. If not, ask some more Q's and we'll see if we can answer them :o)

Are models like the Czar and Baron variations of something else from the JORs? I haven't seen any listing for these and a few other models people have talked about in the Reaper store or CW.

Thanks

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I like what you ahve here, but I would suggest a couple addtional units.

 

Gladiator II - The greatest CAV int he game, point for point. I never leave home without one.

 

Round out your air assets. I'd suggest either a pair of Tsuisekis or a pair of Kharls. They don't call the Tsuiseki the "Flying Ogre" for nothing!

 

If you want to add some armor, you might look at the Despot or the Spike. I dig both of em, and use them when ever I need to fill out a unit or have a defensive objective.

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1)scorpian 07010*

2)a set of dragonflys 07094*

3)sovereign 07018*

4)mastodon 07039*

5)spider 07038

6)duelest 07054

7)wryven 07036

8)conqueror 07023

9)morters 07032 & 07033*

The Mastodon. This is, like most Supers, a double edged sword. Yes, it has that massive gun. But it only has one of them, it's also sloooowwwww and it'll be a big target. Did I mention that I, and others I play with, use mortars as Super killers? Well, the Mastodon dies very easy to this, without ever getting a shot off. I suppose it comes down to style, but since I have some I very rarely use the Mastodon :o)

Can't the Mastodon outrange the mortars and destroy them fairly easily?

 

PS

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1)scorpian 07010*

2)a set of dragonflys 07094*

3)sovereign 07018*

4)mastodon 07039*

5)spider 07038

6)duelest 07054

7)wryven 07036

8)conqueror 07023

9)morters 07032 & 07033*

As others have said the Scorpion is a reasonably stealthy unit. It's low profile means it'll escape getting shot at in some situations because it's totally hidden from DF weapons. However, it's only got 1 gun, which does put it at a disadvantage. So, unless you really want the ability to ignore rough terrain (Scorpion and Spider only) or you really want that low profile (urban setting perhaps) then I'd save my points and buy something that can actually hit hard.

 

To that end, the Duelist is a good unit to have lying around. It'd good armour and 6DT's means it's a complete git to put down. It does have some downsides though... it's not as fast as many other front line Superirority CAV's (Mantis, Wight, Dictator) and it doesn't have any missile packs.... 2 guns is all you've got. The speed thing can be negated by removing the ECCM pod (I rarely use them anyway) and upgrade the movement. This actually makes the unit cheaper :o)

 

The Wyvern, as Storminator mentioned, doesn't stand out from anything else and is in fact a rather plain and mediocre unit. The Dictator is literally 5 points more than the Wyvern, so you can spend 5 points or so and get a CAV with those nice +6 guns. The Mantis is definately a better choice, in my opinion, since it's a pure Superiority CAV of the first order. Good guns, good missiles, good armour, good speed, 5DT's (so not too easy to kill but not too expensive either) and at 343 points, it's worth every one. It does have a slight power problem, but go against the fluff and put the Wyvern's breeder inside and you have a unit with as much resiliance to power loss as possible.

 

The Spider, Conqueror and Sovereign are dedicated missile CAV's. They have large IFM packs which, when combined into a single section and give one of them a chain lock then you have a really nasty bombardment unit.

 

The Sovereign and Conqueror are the longest range units in the game, so you'll be able to reach out and touch someone from a long way off. However, the Spider, not only being a low slung little guy and so being hard to hit and having the ability to ignore rough terrain, has the best anti-soft IFM in the punch (AoE 4, +2/+4). All are good at the job, and it's really a matter of taste. The Spider is the cheapest because it hasn't quite got the range, but it makes up in other areas (like speed). The Conqueror is a good middle of the road, since it's slower but has the range advantage. The Sovereign, while being very good, does suffer from higher points (30 or so) because it's a 5DT CAV while the other two are only 4. In a missile CAV, I prefer the 4 myself :o)

 

Mortars.... definately. Get lots. They rock! Their range is low, but they have high modifiers against all kinds of targets, so they'll hurt most things. I like trios of double heavy mortars with a spotter (one of the above missile CAV's with a chain lock) as Super CAV killers :o)

 

The Mastodon. This is, like most Supers, a double edged sword. Yes, it has that massive gun. But it only has one of them, it's also sloooowwwww and it'll be a big target. Did I mention that I, and others I play with, use mortars as Super killers? Well, the Mastodon dies very easy to this, without ever getting a shot off. I suppose it comes down to style, but since I have some I very rarely use the Mastodon :o)

 

In terms of air power, I'd recommend 4 units. The Tsuiseki and Harpy both have incredibly good weapons in terms of hard target (CAV's and tanks) killing ability and can do it with impunity pretty much. The Dragonfly is a good light all round gunship, as it can hurt CAV's or other gunships if it has too (they all can I guess). The last one is probably the Ghast or the Kikyu as both are lethal to soft targets :o) They work well as fighters or interceptors.

 

APC's. The Badger and Hedgehog, while having served CAV players well for a while, have now been replaced. They were obsolete to begin with (very low ECM meant they were cannon and IFM bait) and the light armaments hurt them too. However, they have established the classes of APC we have. The light APC, like the Hedgehog, is fast and slightly easier to kill (2DT). However, it's good to get the infantry to where they need to be. This role is best done by the Lynx. This APC is available in the shops, and it's quite good. It's 95 points (the Hedgehog is 90) and it's just as fast but has effective offensive weapons and has electronics (ECM and TL) on par with CAV's and such so it can defend itself and resist locks.

 

The heavy APC, one with 3DT's and slightly more weapons, used to be the Badger. It's slower than a light one, but lasts longer in a firefight. This role I'd suggest you use either the Czar or the Baron. They're also possessing effective electronics and weapons and the points cost for both is still less than the Badger :o)

 

I hope this helps. If not, ask some more Q's and we'll see if we can answer them :o)

Impressive write up!!!!

Almost something to copy and paste into my Tactical bible.

 

Very Nice!!

More stuff like this, is what newbie, like myself need to beat up on players like Erion. Who BTW, is going to be schooling me often, on the Battle Fields ruled by CAV Armies!!!

Is it suppose to hurt?

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The Czar and Baron haven't been released yet, which is a shame. But once they do, I'll be swapping my Badgers (may the Great Ogre preserve their name in history) for these.

 

I agree with Freefall also, the Gladiator II is a fearsome opponent. It has long ranging guns, but they aren't quite as powerful as the Dictator or Mantis' weapons. The higher TL on the Gladiator makes up for this in stock games, but I never rely upon TL in order to beat my foes so to me it's a trade-off of range for RAV.

 

Storminator, I think you're right..... but I'd still put a crunchie stand with double heavy mortars at risk to kill a Mastodon in a single round of shooting, as my suggested mortar section can (and does) do... with some spreading out of the infantry the Mastodon can only kill one, and it's the IF mode so it can't use it to defensive fire, and mortars don't provoke defensive fire anyway so long as there's no LoS :o)

 

SuMicus. Feel free to cut and paste into your tactical bible. I have some other perls of wisdom (I managed to convert Strominator to 'Frank's Purity Principle' at ReaperCon) should you need them :o) One question though, does Erion vary his forces or does he have some favourites? Cos if he does, then I can help you write a roster to kick him to the curb :o) (no offense Erion :o))

 

In fact, I think I may well cut and paste myself, and put it into the 'Way of Blood' document I'm writing as a kind of tactical primer for new players.

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None taken.

 

And I don't think I've ever fielded the same force in any two consecutive games, though that may change in the not-too distant future as I work on making it easier on myself to put a game together.

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Hehehhe, know how that feels Erion.

 

Yo, Mad Pat, any joy on the roster for the CTF newbie game? Cos that's not a bad beginning roster.... it has something of everything, although swapping the Sovereign for something like a Hornet or Outlaw could work.

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I sent you the newly created version that we swapped some new stuff out for did you ever get it?

 

Once we get a chance to look at it more we'll post it for a newbie game, its a great way to teach combined arms. Only thing we were missing was armor..and I'm still trying to figure out a way to put that in.

 

Patrick

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