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Rat13

New DM is throwing up too many red flags!

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3 hours ago, VitM said:

 

Ok, so I know nothing about horses, but why can't you bring a horse into a dungeon (assuming there is actual space for it to fit, not dragon-in-a-broom-closet situation) or get it to ride in an elevator?  In either case, even if that's impossible in the real world, couldn't you just hand-wave the impossible things through some combination of character abilities?  e.g. "I rolled a 48 on my Handle Animal check--this horse can now do Trigonometry."  Or,  "My druid/ranger/paladin abilities let me make this animal do things it would never do in the real world."  This just seems like an extension of the tired old "ROLEplay, not ROLLplay" canard.

 

"You can't bring a horse into a dungeon, stupid! My real world experience with horses blah, blah, blah...."

"Yeah, well, my character's Make Animal Do A Thing power is more relevant to the situation at hand than your anecdata, so pass me the d20 and let's move on.  I'm sorry that it offends your sensibilities that I didn't grow up on a farm."  <_<

 

Nobody ever insists that a footrace, arm-wrestling match, or real world attractiveness be relevant to anything characters can do; why is real world horse behavior knowledge held to a higher standard?

It has to do with the way the Horse Brain is hard-wired.

Horses are herd beasts.  When you take them out of a herd you are removing a significant portion of the stabilizing influence on their actions and psyche [such as it is].

Horses are skittish by nature, as a survival instinct.  They don't like unfamiliar smells, or confined spaces, particularly those with short sight lines, because their skittish brain just knows that there is a hungry predator lurking just out of sight, waiting to pounce.

The dungeon is basically every horsey nightmare all rolled into one terrifying package.  It smells peculiar, there isn't any room to run, there is usually no place to turn around, there is no way to spot the lurking predators.  This pushes every panic button at the level well below horsey consciousness.

The only sort of spell that could counter all this would turn the horse into a zombie automaton, assuming the spell didn't weld the animal to the spot in a fit of catatonic inaction.

Besides, many underground scenarios have areas where the physical dimensions make a horse a poor choice for a beast of burden.

Think about having to unload the horse, pack by hand and back all the goods normally carried on the horse, and then repack the horse [assuming you can actually get the horse through the area of restriction] and do it all without attracting the attention of any wandering monsters or regular denizens of the area of restriction.

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9 minutes ago, Green Eyed Monster said:

It has to do with the way the Horse Brain is hard-wired.

Horses are herd beasts.  When you take them out of a herd you are removing a significant portion of the stabilizing influence on their actions and psyche [such as it is].

Horses are skittish by nature, as a survival instinct.  They don't like unfamiliar smells, or confined spaces, particularly those with short sight lines, because their skittish brain just knows that there is a hungry predator lurking just out of sight, waiting to pounce.

The dungeon is basically every horsey nightmare all rolled into one terrifying package.  It smells peculiar, there isn't any room to run, there is usually no place to turn around, there is no way to spot the lurking predators.  This pushes every panic button at the level well below horsey consciousness.

The only sort of spell that could counter all this would turn the horse into a zombie automaton, assuming the spell didn't weld the animal to the spot in a fit of catatonic inaction.

Besides, many underground scenarios have areas where the physical dimensions make a horse a poor choice for a beast of burden.

Think about having to unload the horse, pack by hand and back all the goods normally carried on the horse, and then repack the horse [assuming you can actually get the horse through the area of restriction] and do it all without attracting the attention of any wandering monsters or regular denizens of the area of restriction.

For extra fun, after the PCs have camped in the dungeon, let them find the horse's scattered bones, cracked open and the marrow scraped out.

 

Hey, nobody said that the horse was wrong...

 

Another fun real world example - camels and horses are a lot better at climbing up than down and have been known to get stuck in minarets. (Getting them out again generally involves swords and axes... the horse does not come down in one piece.)

 

The Auld Grump, well, ya did say to 'get that damned horse down, chop-chop!'....

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There's another good reason not to bring an animal twice as big -and three or four times as heavy - as you are into a dungeon. Most cavern ceilings, and interior ceilings are not going to be high enough to let you ride said animal, and thus, you aren't going to be able to take advantage of most of your mount-based abilities anyway.

 

Now, a halfing or gnome or other short-raced character, riding a dog, wolf or miniature pony would probably be fine. But a human? On a full-sized warhorse weighing in at a ton plus? If you don't manage to clothesline yourself on a doorway, you risk concussing yourself on the ceiling. Not useful. :/

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A ten foot drop will hurt a human - a ten foot drop will cripple a horse.

 

A horse's legs are delicate, fragile things - and there was a reason that they used to shoot horses that had broken legs.

 

The Auld Grump

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24 minutes ago, TheAuldGrump said:

A ten foot drop will hurt a human - a ten foot drop will cripple a horse.

 

A horse's legs are delicate, fragile things - and there was a reason that they used to shoot horses that had broken legs.

 

The Auld Grump

I have a friend and Lodge Brother who is a Horseman.

He had one of those rare horses with the equivalent of genius level comprehension and cognitive abilities.  Working with this animal and teaching him to the full extent of his abilities [it went beyond just training] was one of the joys of my friend and brothers life.

The horse broke a leg at about 4 years of age.  End of horse. ::(:

GEM

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All in all, yeah - don't take a horse with you into the dungeon.

 

Asses are less fragile - and can be a lot less skittish.

 

Mules - there is a reason why mules were used in mines.

 

And both have much sturdier legs when compared to their mass than a horse.

 

And do not forget - horses need a lot of water.

 

Don't being something to ride bring something to carry stuff. Mule, donkey, llama - leave the horse outside.

 

The Auld Grump - I am awful on horseback, with a tendency to counter-post.

5 minutes ago, Green Eyed Monster said:

I have a friend and Lodge Brother who is a Horseman.

He had one of those rare horses with the equivalent of genius level comprehension and cognitive abilities.  Working with this animal and teaching him to the full extent of his abilities [it went beyond just training] was one of the joys of my friend and brothers life.

The horse broke a leg at about 4 years of age.  End of horse. ::(:

GEM

 

Even when they do try to keep the horse alive, it is more often as breeding stock than as, well, a horse.

 

And mares can be very, very picky about breeding with a damaged stallion.

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1 hour ago, TheAuldGrump said:

Even when they do try to keep the horse alive, it is more often as breeding stock than as, well, a horse.

 

And mares can be very, very picky about breeding with a damaged stallion.

 

.. that last is probably one of the reasons breeders have semen collection be a thing.

There's a fun job for ya! *headshake*

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21 minutes ago, WhiteWulfe said:

If one brings a llama, can it be a demon llama? 

Knowing the temperamental reputation attributed to Llama in general, how would you know the difference?

GEM

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I have officially left the game. In its entirety here is my parting message:

 

After the first session my wife decided to quit the game. Instead of immediately following her I gave the game one more session. Now I too am dropping out.

I only joined this campaign because my wife wanted to play in an ongoing game, without her there is no reason to continue.

We feel that you are too attached to your world and your particular story. Instead of being able to make our own decisions we are railroaded into doing things we disagree with.

I understand the burdens of DMing on top of story and world building, but when players feel like they have no choice this ceases to be a game. We wish you luck with the campaign but we're done.

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47 minutes ago, WhiteWulfe said:

If one brings a llama, can it be a demon llama? 

The credits have been completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute. Executive Producer JOHN GOLDSTONE & "RALPH" The Wonder Llama Producer MARK FORSTATER Assisted By EARL J. LLAMA MIKE Q. LLAMA III SY LLAMA MERLE Z. LLAMA IX Directed By 40 SPECIALLY TRAINED ECUADORIAN MOUNTAIN LLAMAS 6 VENEZUELAN RED LLAMAS 142 MEXICAN WHOOPING LLAMAS 14 NORTH CHILEAN GUANACOS (CLOSELY RELATED TO THE LLAMA) REG LLAMA OF BRIXTON 76000 BATTERY LLAMAS FROM "LLAMA-FRESH" FARMS LTD. NEAR PARAGUAY and TERRY GILLIAM & TERRY JONES

 

Sorry, looks like the llamas are busy....

 

The Auld Grump - the one L lama is a priest, the two L llama is a beast, but I will bet my striped pajama, there isn't any three L lllama.

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6 minutes ago, Rat13 said:

I have officially left the game. In its entirety here is my parting message:

 

After the first session my wife decided to quit the game. Instead of immediately following her I gave the game one more session. Now I too am dropping out.

I only joined this campaign because my wife wanted to play in an ongoing game, without her there is no reason to continue.

We feel that you are too attached to your world and your particular story. Instead of being able to make our own decisions we are railroaded into doing things we disagree with.

I understand the burdens of DMing on top of story and world building, but when players feel like they have no choice this ceases to be a game. We wish you luck with the campaign but we're done.

Yeah, people ought to know why players are abandoning ship, so they can have a chance at a course correction.

 

And then, I looked at the conversation going on in the posts above, and my eyes fell out of my head.

How did we get to horse breeding?!

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53 minutes ago, Bruunwald said:

Yeah, people ought to know why players are abandoning ship, so they can have a chance at a course correction.

 

And then, I looked at the conversation going on in the posts above, and my eyes fell out of my head.

How did we get to horse breeding?!

Through the magic and mystery of THE INTERNET!

 

1 hour ago, Sylverthorne said:

 

.. that last is probably one of the reasons breeders have semen collection be a thing.

There's a fun job for ya! *headshake*

Being a horse fluffer is a job that I, for one, have no desire to ever experience. :huh:

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Final update. The DM received my message and said okay, very anticlimactic. 

 

Perhaps he is just used to players quitting his games, but I figured if his game was that boring at least leaving would be entertaining. Again I was wrong, he didn't get angry or try to defend his world or his DM skills, it was literally him saying okay.

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32 minutes ago, Rat13 said:

Final update. The DM received my message and said okay, very anticlimactic. 

 

Perhaps he is just used to players quitting his games, but I figured if his game was that boring at least leaving would be entertaining. Again I was wrong, he didn't get angry or try to defend his world or his DM skills, it was literally him saying okay.

I'm glad that part worked out, at least. I was afraid that there might be some theatrics.

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