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Star Wars: What's going on? (SPOILERS)


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1 hour ago, Sirithiliel said:

And fixing the Millennium falcon when Han, who had flown and owned it for so much longer and should know the ins and outs of that 'pile of junk' much better than her? 

I can see people picking up how to fight, how to lift stuff. But what about 100% immediately mastering how to force manipulate someone's mind on the very first go? 

I dunno. As i said, i like to see characters earn stuff and so far all i see is her being given these special amazing powers to make the plot work. SHe feels like a very one dimensional character with no reason to like her or care about what happens to her, to me at least. I know otherts will feel differently but her character rubs me the wrong way with always being perfect in everything she wants to do.

 

they could give her one thing to be bad at and show her failing at it, no? Maybe? Or is that too much to ask for there to be a flaw in this character? =P sure she's a bit gullible to be tricked into going to Kylo Ren, but that's okay because she didn't actually get any harm out of it. What mistakes she does make don't actually affect her in any real way

 

i guess i just expect too much from movies now a days and prefer characters with some substance and reason for being beyond 'she has powers becuase Kylo ren has powers and she magically gets power equal to his'

Again, she was a junker and actually knew how to fix things and how things worked. Most of the time on the Falcon it was R2 or Chewy who fixed the broken stuff and got things going. Han was mostly the pilot. 

 

Luke was never trained to do mind tricks, he saw Obi Wan do it 1 time in the first movie. He could barely force lift things by the end of his training with Yoda. 

 

So what does this all mean? The Force in all these movies is INSTINCTUAL on so many levels. They know how to use it to manipulate minds, how to fix things, how to pilot, how to move things, and how to fight. They use more of their minds, they can access different parts of their brains and they can do things that others cannnot. We have to suspend reality in terms of Star Wars and stop asking why can X do this and remember that throughout the series Y and Z also do it. 

 

Her biggest flaw to me is her impulsiveness and her need to feel like she belongs. Really I think people expect too much out of a 2 hour movie as far as character development goes. None of the Star Wars movies do a good job of character development to be honest. It’s a Space Opera centered around magic and technology and one family (mostly). It’s good versus evil adventure and meant to entertain not create an Oscar winning deep plot and great character development. Throughout the series it’s been about balance of the Force. There’s always a yin/yang. So yeah, I think some expect waaaay too much and blithely forget the original trilogy had just as many if not more flaws with character development and plot holes and then nostalgia makes them conveniently forget and hate on the new stuff which is as good or better than the originals in my opinion. Yes, I think a few changes would have been cooler. I’d have loved to see Rey and Kylo join up together and become Grey Jedi and I’d have loved to see Finn go out in a blaze of glory in heroic fashion taking out that laser canon, but they went in different directions and I’m excited to see how it concludes in Episode IX. 

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hmmm i guess, but i'm not going to argue about it anymore, i'm definitely not in the mood for that

 

all i will say is that she annoys me as a character and i'd prefer something other than 'she magically gets her powers because a sith in the universe is getting more powerful too'

 

that still feels like a cheap cop out plot device to make their story work than an actual working theory, and i'll just leave it at that. Not even sure i'm going to go watch 9, the previous 2 having been such disappointments for me

Edited by Sirithiliel
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Hmm. Just hit me. In one of those... gah! Can't recall the fake guy's name! YouTube review of the Phantom Menace; had a girl chained in the basement. Mr Plinkett?

 

Anyway, a challenge he came up with was to describe the SW character without using their occupation or wardrobe. First trilogy characters were easy. Prequels characters were hard.

 

These last two? Mixed bag. Poe, Finn, Rey, and Kylo all seem mostly on their way to that good point. Brash and daring. Cowardly yet eventually does right. Lost, powerful, and seeking. Ambitious, dark, and brooding. A lot of the others are cardboard. Snoke? Uh... ugly. Phantasma? Uh... shiny. Damn. That's wardrobe.

 

ETA: I suppose Siri would add "overpowered" to Rey.

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10 hours ago, ub3r_n3rd said:

I think a lot of people forget that Luke trained with Ben for a day or two, then Yoda for a couple weeks and suddenly he’s a full fledged Jedi able to go toe-to-toe with the one of most powerful and skilled Sith ever in Darth Vader and even defeat him in front of the Emperor. 

What a lot of people forget about the original trilogy is that time passes between the movies. It's like two years between the end of A New Hope and the start of The Empire Strikes Back. In that time Luke is using the force and slowly learning. At the beginning of Empire he's struggling just to force grab his lightsaber even with all this "training".

 

Last Jedi cannot say that, it literally picks up right at the end of Force Awakens. Rey had no time to develop naturally. 

 

From where I'm standing the only way to explain her is to use the major plot point from KOTOR. In that she was a really powerful Jedi or Sith that had their mind wiped, which is why they're such a "natural" when it comes to the Force and lightsaber combat.

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Two things have helped clarify my thinking on the modern Star Wars movies this week.

 

1- I sat down and watched the original trilogy, the most marked differences that I observed between those films and the new ones were these. The original films felt expansive, especially ESB and ROTJ, it felt like the Empire was everywhere, all powerful and the lack of rebels was due to the crushing dominance of the Imperial structure,. In contrast the new films feel small, like they're set in a single solar system, everything is reduced in number and scale. 

The second thing was just how iconic and memorable many of the secondary and tertiary characters from the OT are. Think of characters like the bounty hunters we see for only a few seconds in ESB, or the Gamorrean Guards in ROTJ, I can't really say that such characters are memorable in the new films, for a start there are a lot less of them, but they've also become so much less significant.

 

 

2- I went to see TLJ with two of my nephews (14 and 18), my third time and their first. Both of the boys have been brought up on Star Wars, they were almost force fed it from the earliest age in the form of toys, cartoons and films....they love it. It made me quite emotional that they were prepared to wait this long to see it with me, I'd promised to take them and maintain our Star Wars watching tradition together, and they've been dodging spoilers and Youtube clips ever since.

So as the film progressed I kept glancing left and right to see how they were getting on and they were absolutely living it, both had tears in their eyes at the end. 

We went for a burger afterwards and their level of enthusiasm was incredible, they had nothing negative to say, no criticisms. And it occurred to me that in many ways I mirrored the original SW heroes in the way that my role with the Star Wars films has developed. I still had a part, but I'd had my shot at the magic and the next generation is now carrying the torch. Not to say that I don't experience the thrill anymore but I'll never free myself from the cynicism and doubt that comes with age.

 

Edited by Beagle
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@Beagle - exactly! The nostalgia is very strong and a lot of fans who hate the new stuff are comparing to the feelings they had as children watching for the first time with those as more cynic and jaded adults. Really, with Star Wars there’s a formula that Lucas (and now the new directors) follow for the most part. The new films don’t give the same sense of wonder to a lot of the older crowd. 

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well of course kids are going to enjoy it haha, i don't really see kids watching movies the way adults do. Look at kid movie plots compared to adult movie plots xD or movies directed for kids, like those awful Transformer movies.

but oh well. I know i'm in the minority in that the movies bother me, the characters bother me, an di think the writing and direction sucks but i've said my piece so i'll just back out of the thread now and let the happiness continue without tarnishing it

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2 hours ago, Sirithiliel said:

well of course kids are going to enjoy it haha, i don't really see kids watching movies the way adults do. Look at kid movie plots compared to adult movie plots xD or movies directed for kids, like those awful Transformer movies.

but oh well. I know i'm in the minority in that the movies bother me, the characters bother me, an di think the writing and direction sucks but i've said my piece so i'll just back out of the thread now and let the happiness continue without tarnishing it

I’m not saying in any way that you aren’t entitled to your opinion or that I think you should love the new movies. I’m simply stating that the wonder you (and many others) felt when watching the original trilogy is mostly gone as an adult and a lot of people may be viewing through that lens. The OT was far from perfect and had many flaws that a lot of people overlook because of their nostalgia for them. If they came out today for the very first time then I bet you and many others would probably find the same problems/issues that you do as an adult with the newer stuff. 

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The issues I have with rey is becoming a master in nearly everything in the span of a few days

 

OT does not have that issue. There are gaps of two or so years between whenever luke could barely force pull a light saber to him and when he is actually skilled

 

i don’t think the lEns issue is making me see that. They made Rey very powerful in a time frame that spans a week. I find that absurd 

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1 hour ago, Sirithiliel said:

The issues I have with rey is becoming a master in nearly everything in the span of a few days... They made Rey very powerful in a time frame that spans a week. I find that absurd 

 

Yes... but...but...

What if Rey was already super skilled in the Force when we first encounter her, but she doesn't remember... Things are happening that are bringing those memories and skills back... Like Jason Bourne in the first Bourne movie...

 

So Rey is Jason Bourne level awesome but no one (not even her) knows...

22eakg.jpg

Edited by Smokestack
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See that would be fine. That would be a reason for her instant mastering I could get behind

 

but so far all the movies have told us is it is because Kyle Ren is getting more powerful, so the force is handing her free mastery as well

 

 

Edited by Sirithiliel
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Ok, I finally saw it, so I can participate in this thread.

 

The main issue I have with the new trilogy is that there's no explanation of what the hell happened in the 20-30 years since the events of Jedi. Exactly what happened that leads us to the protagonists being in exactly the same situation in these movies that they were in in the original trilogy? Who/what is Snoke? What is the first order? Where'd they come from?

 

(I have been able to do some online research and figure this out, but it should have addressed in the movies, IMO)

 

So, that's my major gripe with the new movies. Most of my other ones are minor, attention to detail type things that a lot of people may have missed.

SPOILERS BELOW, in case you still haven't seen the movie.

 

Forex: When Luke makes his projection at the end of the movie, how did he hold Leia's hand?

A bigger one: At least 6 escape transports escaped and made landfall on the  salt-planet. I haven't been able to figure out (yet) the transport capacity of them, but lets assume there should have been roughly 500 people on the ground. There wasn't enough fighting to have wiped them all out to the point that there were only a few survivors left to escape on the Millennium Falcon.

 

END SPOILERS

 

And then there's Phasma. Some of you are likely to be upset by this, so I apologize up front.

 

I hope she's dead. The character was a waste from the word go. There was no reason for her to exist. I would've loved to see a really nasty lady villain; they blew it when they decided to go with 'shiny stormtrooper' for her look/gimmick/whatever. That goes completely against everything that's already established. Stormtroopers are nameless, faceless, bad guys. They (mostly) wear white armor. They have different colored pauldrons that denote rank. They may wear different styles of armor depending on their assignment (snowtrooper, scout trooper), but they don't get to wear special colored, one of a kind armor for any reason. Any special ornamentation to denote significant achievements would have been reserved for use on the dress uniform. The shiny armor doesn't make sense from the in universe lore stand point, and it doesn't make sense militarily, either. (Kill the one with the different armor, it might be their leader).

If they'd had a couple lines of dialogue about it being new, experimental, blaster proof armor for use by officers, and had at least a few other people wearing it, I wouldn't have had as much heartache about it.

Just to be absolutely clear, this has nothing to do with the fact the character was a woman, it would have irked me just as much if it was a guy. Actually, I'm more irked that they included a female villain, and then they basically wasted her.

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i definitely agree Phasma was a waste of potential, and i hope they dont' bring her back because that's twice now they failed to do anything with the character other than get her butt whooped

 

and i agree on the empty gap of 'what happened?'. we need to know why the Republic is, yet again, downtrodden rebels after having been in control of the galaxy at the end of RotJ. We need to know where the FIrst Order came from and who they are, what they want, if we're to properly feel there is actual conflict and stakes at hand. "They're the bad guys' is not enough for me to go off of.

 

I want to know how they went from Point A, the victory at the end of RotJ, to Point B...being a scattered handful of rebels in a First-Order controlled galaxy

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Most of the gap questions are covered in the auxiliary media, book, comics, etc.  Let the rivers of money flow...

 

The remnants of the Empire and their escape to the Unknown Regions is covered in the Aftermath trilogy

The entry of the First Order and the failings of the New Republic are covered in Bloodlines.

Phasma has her own book which goes into why she and at least one other have special uniforms.

Poe Dameron has a comic series.

 

Would it have been awesome to cover this in a movie?.  Yes, sure.  But I'm pretty sure that was never part of the plan.

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      The Story:
       
      After the capture of Han Solo by the Bounty Hunter Boba Fett, Princess Leia Organa selects a group of operatives to accompany her on a special mission back to Hoth in order to recover files and equipment that will be necessary to implement Solo's rescue.  The rebels expected the remains of the base to be empty, but Darth Vader's prescience led him to leave a small garrison force on the remote ice planet.  
       
      Dengar, and his cadre of assassin droids, were too late to Bespin to participate in Solo's capture and the attempted capture of Luke Skywalker, but he continued trailing the Millenium Falcon when it left Cloud City.  Unfortunately for Dengar, the rebel sniper Loku Kanoloa trailed the rest of the band and now has the bounty hunter in his sights.
       
      The rebels managed to acquire their assets but were discovered on their way out of the base.  General Sorin, eager to not fail Darth Vader, has deployed all his best assets in an effort to capture the rebels before they can return to their transport and escape.
       
      All the activity in the area of the base has alerted a small band of wampas that were living in the ruins, and they are investigating.
       
       
      Again, I need to redo some of the Scum & Villainy bases.  I think I changed ring-colors and the darker green just doesn't show well.
       
      Dengar's armor is the wrong color.  I was originally going to do more of a feldbruan, but I got caught mentally on feldgrau.  I also need to go over the dots on the HK's bases.  I was originally going to mark the bases to distinguish which tokens to use, but I came up with a better way (as many IA gamers/painters did) of just hitting the base with a hash mark in the appropriate color.  That makes it much easier to distinguish which models go together and which ones are which.
       
      Loku is shown in the printed materials as being a red Mon Calamari wearing green.  But, after Rogue One introduced to Admiral Raddus and his crew, I knew I didn't want to paint him red.  It makes no (visual) sense for a sniper on an ice world to be wearing so much brown and green, so I went rogue and painted him blue with  more lighter colored gear.  I thought about painting his skin white, but...
       
      so...
       
      much...
       
      white...
       
      I just couldn't do it (and I still have 11 or so characters who will be wearing white)!  I think I should have started with a little bit lighter shade, but I did what I did and I'm not redoing it or Dengar's armor.  It might not be accurate, but tough noogies.
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