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Confrontation: Classic


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4 minutes ago, Orlando_the_Technicoloured said:

Similarly when Impact! Miniatures did their first Chibi KS they had characters based on the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon and the IP owner was satisfied with them not being painted up in the same colours as the cartoon

 

As were Disney/Marvel with the goblin heroes project that was run a while ago. Once they repainted the figures so they didnt have the same colour scheme as the actual Marvel heroes, they were fine to go.

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52 minutes ago, Grefven said:

 

As were Disney/Marvel with the goblin heroes project that was run a while ago. Once they repainted the figures so they didnt have the same colour scheme as the actual Marvel heroes, they were fine to go.

 

Gob'z'heroes? i was only looking at their site earlier today to see if the Indiegogo minis were there, which they were :) 

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9 hours ago, Original Timmy said:

 

Gob'z'heroes? i was only looking at their site earlier today to see if the Indiegogo minis were there, which they were :) 

 

Yeah, that was the name for it. :) They were originally painted in the superhero costumes, and were forced to take their project down. But after a repaint, the exact same figures were Ok to go on the same site.

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With the other IP issues, I wonder if they weren't pursued further because the IP holders were satisfying the law or their lawyers, more than to shut down competition. I have the impression that Cadwallon / Signum and Stellar / Sans-Detour don't get along with each other (iirc, Sans-Detour suggested Cadwallon was bad-mouthing the Confrontation project), so Stellar may go farther. The LoS IP dispute may have more in common with the Hex dispute, in which WotC went after Cryptozoic. 

 

https://news.softpedia.com/news/Hex-Shards-of-Fate-TCG-Maker-Cryptozoic-Responds-to-Lawsuit-by-WotC-442953.shtml

https://www.engadget.com/2014/05/20/wizards-of-the-coast-sues-cryptozoic-over-hex-tcg/

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4 hours ago, ced1106 said:

With the other IP issues, I wonder if they weren't pursued further because the IP holders were satisfying the law or their lawyers, more than to shut down competition. I have the impression that Cadwallon / Signum and Stellar / Sans-Detour don't get along with each other (iirc, Sans-Detour suggested Cadwallon was bad-mouthing the Confrontation project), so Stellar may go farther. The LoS IP dispute may have more in common with the Hex dispute, in which WotC went after Cryptozoic. 

 

https://news.softpedia.com/news/Hex-Shards-of-Fate-TCG-Maker-Cryptozoic-Responds-to-Lawsuit-by-WotC-442953.shtml

https://www.engadget.com/2014/05/20/wizards-of-the-coast-sues-cryptozoic-over-hex-tcg/

 

At least with Kickstarter I'd expect SD to push it as far as they can regardless of any incremental compliance from LoS. If it actually went to court they'd probably be more focused on actionable offences.

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From things that I've read, it sounds as if both sides were accusing the other of sabotaging their Kickstarter comments.

For all I know, the bad blood between them might actually go deep enough for them to pull that kind of crap.

 

It is in everyone's best interest if they stay out of court- neither company can afford a protracted court battle.  If Sans Detour will only be satisfied if Signum is destroyed, then Signum will have to defend themselves.

And that will contribute to the excuses Sans Detour will give as to why they couldn't deliver on their promises.

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On 5/24/2018 at 12:28 PM, Original Timmy said:

 

I believe they need to list to KS what is infringing and with proof otherwise anyone could get a KS shutdown, its also no good just saying "their game looks like ours" as CMON and ND/S$P would be doing that to each other and to all other "Chibi" games on KS.

 

Im quite friendly with a creator that had his KS "New York Bop" miniature skirmish game brought down by 20th century fox(or which ever studio owns the "Warriors" IP) as it was "too inspired"/IP infringing, we had a good chat about it and he told me the things the film studio had a problem with, which were the theme of the KS page was all in "Warrior" colors, all minis were all painted as "Warriors" without the "Warrior" name patch  and 1 mini was to close to source, he repainted the minis a different color, changed the KS color theme and got the infringing mini re-sculpted and re-launched his game on KS under "NYC Street Wars" and had no problems, funded well and either just fulfilled or in the fulfilment stage.

 

 

I doubt that CMON and NJ would engage in these sorts of shenanigans, because it is clearly bad PR.  When they split, both sides publicly announced that it was amicable in every way.  Fans speculate about how much they hate each other, and blame one or the other for screwing things up (and it is logical that something must have caused the rift).

It is good to know that Stellar has to say what the problems are- because that will give Signum a chance to actually fix it and be completely legit.  I'm still worried that this is more of a grudge match that can't end well.  The 20th Century Fox people didn't hate your friend and want to sink his business, and that makes solutions easier.

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There were some diehard Confrontation fans spewing hostility and negativity in the Legends of Signum kickstarter comments for the first few days (days 2-4). They eased off after an initial attack. I can't say how many of the people asking questions about what material the miniatures would be made of in the Confrontation comments section were innocent inquiries or related to Cadwallon at all.

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On 5/25/2018 at 4:28 PM, Balgin Stondraeg said:

There were some diehard Confrontation fans spewing hostility and negativity in the Legends of Signum kickstarter comments for the first few days (days 2-4). They eased off after an initial attack. I can't say how many of the people asking questions about what material the miniatures would be made of in the Confrontation comments section were innocent inquiries or related to Cadwallon at all.

 

There were a couple people who were there that thought of Cadwallon as a heroic robin hood type- but it seemed like most of the critics of Confrontation recognized that what Cad was doing was clearly illegal (some of them said that they appreciated it while the property was in complete limbo, but would prefer legitimate sources on minis, etc).

 

There were accusations that anyone talking about the math on Confrontation fulfillment were in the pay of recasters.  I was accused of such myself after I posted up my own "I can't see how this is economically viable, and my concerns were confirmed by an industry professional that I talked to last evening" post.

One of Sans Detour's official spokespersons accused all detractors of being trolls- and there was an attitude that "True Confrontation Fans" would want Confrontation to come back so much that they wouldn't shirk at the host of red flags on display.

 

Most of Confrontation's lost backers dropped down to $1 (even after SD said that they wouldn't let the $1 backers upgrade in the pledge manager).  That makes me think that most are authentic fans (or at lest reserving their seats for the train wreck).

 

I don't think I'd be all that surprised if Sans Detour did send some of their people over to try and sabotage Signum (especially if they thought it was it was happening to them).  But most of the Confrontation detractors were clamoring for SD to end the failing campaign and start over so that they could do Confrontation right.  I felt like that was decent Kickstarter advice, and I don't think that saboteurs would be doing that.

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5 minutes ago, odinsgrandson said:

But most of the Confrontation detractors were clamoring for SD to end the failing campaign and start over so that they could do Confrontation right.  I felt like that was decent Kickstarter advice, and I don't think that saboteurs would be doing that.

I whole heartedly agree with that. 

I don't know how many of you are familiar with the Defiance Games debacle, but I was a supporter of them prior to their Kickstarter.  Most of their supporters were telling them "Don't do a Kickstarter until you deliver this other product" (don't remember what it was).  Our reasoning was that they had a lot of doubters and that delivering that other product would help boost their reputation.  And then they went ahead and launched the KS anyway. There was definitely a group of us who didn't back the project, but also didn't bad mouth them - we wanted it to succeed, even though we had suspicions it wouldn't. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, kristof65 said:

So November 2019, the promised delivery date for this has come and gone, and no surprise, it hasn't delivered.   But then, many successful projects don't deliver on time, so that's not a big deal.  But this probably is:

https://www.chaosium.com/blogstatement-about-ditions-sansdtour

November 2019 is 11.5 months away still.... ~_^  But ouch, not paying someone who's license you're using, and pushing product for is a... Risky business strategy.  Very risky. 

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1 hour ago, WhiteWulfe said:

November 2019 is 11.5 months away still

Gah - that's how scrambled my brain is today.   It didn't help that I was trying to follow comments written in french using Google translate and that there were other people who were thinking that was last month, too. 

I am normally pretty good at double checking myself on that. 

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