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Confrontation: Classic


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For me, I walked away from it because of way too many red flags, but there was still that optimism that hey, it might go through.  Well, until about six months ago or so, when.. Yeah. 

 

Sucks it's gone that way though, many were excited to see the minis come back. 

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On 1/18/2020 at 8:01 AM, Orlando_the_Technicoloured said:

i think most with reservations dropped out before the end, to not give them even a euro

 

so a lot fewer who can say I told you so in the comments now

 

 

There were 1,200 Celebration boxes sold, but 2300 backers all together.  I mean, I didn't seen another Kickstarter get this kind of action at the $1 level until CMON's Time Machine.

I'm sure that some of those people were just foolishly hoping to pick up a few resin minis, but I know that I've seem some of the people who were prominent detractors continue to post after the KS ended.


And this Kickstarter has made me reflect about how I weigh risks for something like this.  I think that sometimes people weigh the risks very poorly. I mean, we look at all the information, but we feel that since both sides have supporters, they both are equally legitimate. Then we choose to believe what we WANT to be true.

 

For a lot of people, the choice to believe in Sans Detour was based on a real desire for Confrontation to return rather than a vigorously honest assessment of the risks involved.

 

This, unfortunately, is the reality that the internet has created. All beliefs are signal boosted to the point where even complete lunatics can find communities to reinforce their beliefs.

 

Perhaps we can take solace in the fact that there were more backers of this campaign than there are members of the Flat Earth Society.

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On 1/17/2020 at 5:44 PM, Balgin Stondraeg said:

 

Oh I've been gloating but I've been doing it very privately.

mostly the same here. 

I hope that at least KS gained a lot more skeptics willing to do some due diligence and watch for red flags after this.  But probably not - instead, KS probably just gained a bunch more detractors who will simply blame KS and avoid any sort of crowdfunding instead. 

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19 minutes ago, kristof65 said:

mostly the same here. 

I hope that at least KS gained a lot more skeptics willing to do some due diligence and watch for red flags after this.  But probably not - instead, KS probably just gained a bunch more detractors who will simply blame KS and avoid any sort of crowdfunding instead. 

 

 

 

I have felt that Kickstarter skepticism has grown a lot in the past couple of years.  There are now often people pointing out the red flags.

I have generally thought it lined up with the pronounced failure of Super Dungeon Legends.  Ironically, that Kickstarter was red flag free. but I think it has convinced a lot of people to at least look for warning signs.

 

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55 minutes ago, odinsgrandson said:

There are now often people pointing out the red flags.

Unfortunately, as you pointed out above, even when red flags are pointed out, people ignore them. 

I can sort of understand when a small company like Defiance Games makes $46k over some $30 boxes of minis where the average pledge size was $68, despite the red flags.  

But the Sans Detour Confrontation KS?  Where the average pledge size was $189, and the project was hemorrhaging funds almost every day after the first week? 

 

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2 hours ago, kristof65 said:

Unfortunately, as you pointed out above, even when red flags are pointed out, people ignore them. 

I can sort of understand when a small company like Defiance Games makes $46k over some $30 boxes of minis where the average pledge size was $68, despite the red flags.  

But the Sans Detour Confrontation KS?  Where the average pledge size was $189, and the project was hemorrhaging funds almost every day after the first week? 

 

 

 

 

The "Average Pledge Size" isn't a good average here because there were a bit more than a thousand pledges at $1 (either people who were undecided or people who wanted to comment/watch the campaign).

The people who actually got in on the Kickstarter pledged about $300 each- and the total is something like 400k.

And I agree- that makes this a much more impressive scam- despite the bright visibility of the red flags.

Edited by odinsgrandson
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There's a thread in the comments section gathering all of the red flags in one place.  Somone brought up some things I don't think I had head before.

[q] Sans Detour had to put on hold their Aventure rpg Ulule project due to contractual issues with the author who claimed he had not been paid for his work. Being labelled as a "preorder" this crowdfunding campaign must be refunded to backers under the french law. They've been reported to the Franch Fraud prevention authority and they decided there was matter to investigate for an eventual prosecution.[/q]

I have no problem at all believing that Sans Detour would fail to pay an author they're working with. I didn't know that they were actually handing out refunds for one of their previous catastrophes though- but I'm not very certain that the guy who wrote this confirmed it.

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Sadly (and as expected) this is now dead as San Detour is in administration (looks like a forced liquidation by the court)

 

https://www.societe.com/societe/sans-detour-504290206.html

 

I guess if your in it for a lot it might be worth trying to lodge a claim but I don't imagine it will get you anything back

 

 

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5 hours ago, SamuraiJack said:

Does anyone think there needs to be more discussion on this or can I lock the thread?

 


There may yet be more.

 

The project and company are dead.  Some backers are sending their claims to the lawyer in charge of the company's liquidation, and I'm honestly interested to find out whether any of their claims are honored.

I expect the lawsuit that backers were forming will fizzle out now that the company is gone.

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Didn't Sans Detour just license the rights to manufacture the minis at an exhorbitant price, from another company owned by the same crooks as Sans Ethics?

 

It will be interesting to see if the judges will see it as separate companies or not. 

(If money has been moved from one to another for no good reason they may take offense)

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