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Confrontation: Classic


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14 hours ago, Balgin Stondraeg said:

Disturbingly these people were responsible for the Alkemy miniatures. Even more disturbingly they think the Alkemy miniatures were really good. I know the studio photos made them look good but the actual figures were so bad I never bothered to paint them.

 

I hope they do much better with these Confrontation re-releases. Seriously. I do. There's a lot of Confrontation fans who really want this to work so I hope it works out well for them. I'm just not sure I need to be involved yet. I've still got most of the old Dwarfs of Tir Na Bor in metal. I even painted  afair few of them. greenstuffed on moustaches as well because, without them, they just looked like Pac Man wearing a really bad fake beard.

 

I don't think they themselves do the Alkemy range, they're getting advice on mini production from the Alkemy guys because they have no experience in that area (I think they do RPG books or something).

No idea if they're getting good advice or not, the fact that they seem to believe there's no difference between making metal or PVC minis nudges me towards not (I don't know either, but that doesn't sound right to me).

 

I don't have a horse in this race (just following out of morbid curiosity), but I do hope the people ploughing $300+ in to this get something decent in the end.

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@TurboCooler - Is it possible to elaborate more. Would not the molds for the PVC and ABS need metal molds, are you saying that these can be made via the masters? ---Masters are what's needed to make molds. Metal, plastic or resin. We don't need metal molds to make the plastic ones. - There is no rework that will be required? --- Maybe a bit but not that much. -For example, would not the plastic molds need deeper or bolder lines to compensate for the shrinking of the material which would be much more than metal? --- Not really no. As for Alkemy, the same masters were used to produce Plastic minis, the same in resin and even some metal samples. Not an issue at all. 


 

It's almost like those Ice Age Miniatures guys were back again. 

 

Credit to Limonata and TurboCooler!

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Wow, just wow.

 

If they reach 1,250,000 euroes they'll unlock the factions as individual add ons for all those people currently sitting on starter boxes asking to just buy the factions that they want.

 

Don't get me wrong but wouldn't this basically see the funding total plummet as backers drop their big box pledges to go for individual faction selections?

 

These faction add ons will only be the starting selections which were available at the start of the campaign. Stretch goal unlocks will not be included.

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In all honesty I get the impression that they're very ambitious but something doesn't seem right. A lot of people are complaining that they can't make so many miniatures so cheaply without some serious loss of quality. If they have some super secret that helps them keep costs down (such as the fact that they .... don't have to pay for the sculpts) then they should try to gain the confidence of their backers.

 

Unfortunately Sans Detour do not seem confident at the moment. They seem to be desperately scrambling to stay afloat. That doesn't inspire confidence in this potential backer.

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I wouldn't give them even that single €1.  

I'm guessing that the reason they think they can do it so cheap is that they're using old Confrontation minis as the masters, and expect that that will work without issues. 

Except those were designed for spincasting with pewter.  For the plastic they need to create molds similar to the molds used by Reaper for the Bones minis.   

Maybe they're getting them cut in Aluminium instead of steel?

That will cut down on cost, but it will also come with a much more limited lifetime.   

 

They need to get rulebooks printed. And even translated into other languages. And translations cost seriuos money if it's to be done right. 

 

Then there's the fact that they don't seem to understand how Kickstarter and the backers work... 

(Promising a lower priced alternative... )

 

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The euro might be worth just for the front row seat in a couple years when backers are screaming "where's my stuff?"   And it's probably better than buying a lottery ticket in terms of what it's likely to return. 

I'm doing some simple math here.  178 miniatures in the Celebration box set.   If you estimate 5 minis per mold, and $10K per mold, that works out to 40 molds needed, or $400,000.  That is, of course, assuming that all the minis are unique. I'm unclear as to how many might be duplicates, which would reduce the number of molds needed.  OTOH, $10k per mold is a very generous estimate.  From the looks of some of those figures, you could be talking 15, 20, 25k for the mold.  That's just figures alone. 

IIRC, the Reaper KS core sets didn't hit 100 figures until well after the million dollar mark?  And Reaper wasn't promising any rules to go along with those, either. 

I fail to see how they can pull this off at their current funding level, let alone how they planned to if they only made their initial goal. 

 

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To be fair it's just the old rules complete with the old translation issues. They aren't re-writing them. New rules are planned for their next project - Confrontation Resurrection. All they need to do this time 'round is write some quick start rules (or just grab all the old quick start rules booklets that used to come in every single Rackham blister pack as there might be a whole load of those lying around).

 

There's a lot of things they can do to cut costs but even so it seems very cheap.

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For my part, this was one of the red flags for me. It really does not seem as if they care about the game at all, and I am told that whomever is answering comments on the KS does not seem to have any deep understanding of the rules either ( I would not know, not being familiar with those rules anyway)

 

Which really is not good, considering that this is a pure nostalgia product for hardcore fans.

 

For my part I pulled out of this one a few days ago, as there are just so many red flags and the cost is too high for me to risk it.

Basically, they are making bones of the confrontation minis without any production samples to show what the detail levels are going to be like, and the comments they make about production leaves me with no confidence in their ability to rework the minis/moulds whatever to make acceptable level of details for this.  Also, everything is going to be "the best". I find the Trump-style blather really offputting.

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People are interested in Confrontation because of the miniatures. The rules are not great. There were reasons why Rackham decided to revise 3.5 to 4.0 and made pre-painted plastics instead. The whole game system failed once. What makes people think that it can be revive again if nothing has changed?

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This is interesting to watch. The comments on the kickstarter are more negative than a Bones KS during the mid campaign lulls.  They've back slid so much in the last three days in pledges and backers  that they've gone below one stretch goal unlock, and are close to going below another. 

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