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Clearman

Dragon Lords: Grenadier miniatures

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I think the was what Grump was looking at when he was TRYING not to wake me up this morning.

 

Eee bee beep?!

 

Then a sad Beep, and Sigh.

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48 minutes ago, PaganMegan said:

I think the was what Grump was looking at when he was TRYING not to wake me up this morning.

 

Eee bee beep?!

 

Then a sad Beep, and Sigh.

Beep.

 

Multi-national licensing is a royal pain in the butt - it is entirely possible that Mirliton believes that it does have alll the righs, that they bought them along with the molds when Nemo - who then handled Grenadier for the region - went under.

 

It is even possible that by the law in Italy they do have those rights - I am completely clueless in that regard. Different countries can have very different laws.

 

The Auld Grump - though.... undead war elephant..... Beeep....

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I already HAVE most of the old Grenadier minis I want... either through obtaining the originals, or by sheer dogged possessiveness of stuff I owned when I was twelve. There are a few others I could stand to have, particularly some of the old stuff they did for Top Secret and Call Of Cthulhu.

That being said, until Garrity's business is settled to her satisfaction, I ain't got a dog in this fight. Hell, if Italian law permits someone to take possession of my property for ANY reason, then the hell with Italian law.

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I bought the Undead Grenadier Rhino a few years ago ( painted it recently) it was a great price on Ebay and then when I got the box the Undead Elephant and Mammoth were both there as well.

Rhino missed a small tail piece and Mammoth a small neckjoint, I resculpted that.

 

I did purchase the Goblin War Giant and Invincible Dragon from Mirlinton before I was aware of the Infringement stuff.

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1 hour ago, TheAuldGrump said:

It is even possible that by the law in Italy they do have those rights - I am completely clueless in that regard. Different countries can have very different laws.

 

Other problem is that, just because something is legal in one country (eg. trademark ownership, certain drugs) doesn't mean it's legal in another.

 

Unlike retail, KS IP issues are a yellow flag for me. Either it's licensing, which means additional costs and possible uncooperativeness from the licensor, or knowing who has rights to a long OOP IP.

 

I also have the original Grenadier miniatures and would say that it's better to find an "old school" miniatures KS (eg. Impact Miniatures) where the ownership of the rights are clearer.

Edited by ced1106
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Does anyone else think that the prices they’re asking for are too high, given that they already have the molds etc ?

Edited by Beagle
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Well, the Grenadier AD&D Dungeon Explorers was released in 1980, and I remember paying $20 for it, for 20 explorers. With inflation, $20 is now that same box would cost... *SIXTY DOLLARS* :wacko:

 

But that's still not as much as the "ABOUT $75" Grazzini is asking for their 20-figure Dungeon Explorers set. I assume the smaller print run and license (quote unquote) would cost more.

 

In comparison, Impact Miniatures had the rights to the "Kev Adams / Tim Prow Oldhammer Goblin Miniatures" and sold them at... $35 for 31 resin goblin miniatures. 

 

So, yeah, Grazzin's still expensive, and you still have mini's to paint. You can wait for the next KS from a reputable creator who definitely has the rights for their old school miniatures.

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 Ya know... For the cost of the U.S. shipping alone, I can piece together pretty much any one of those sets from the various online dealers. Most of those figures are the most commonly seen stuff online.

For the total price to get one of those sets, I can buy an original shrink-wrapped set on EvilBay.

 

 

 

Edited by Mad Jack
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Are they covering shipping, or do backers pay separately for that? Because if he's not covering shipping, he's a gouger as well as a pirate.

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5 hours ago, Beagle said:

Does anyone else think that the prices they’re asking for are too high, given that they already have the moods etc ?

 

Yeah . . .  200 Euro for the complete run of boxed sets is pretty damned steep as far as I'm concerned. 

 

The Egg

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 Fun Fact: I just got the Box o' Goodwill today... There are three of the figures in that KS in the box.  :rolleyes:

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have those old box sets "remastered" and done in modern materials, but not for anywhere near those prices.

 

 

Side question - the 2001 Wizards: Masters of Sorcery box... It shows the "archmage", the wizard casting a giant spell, but not the two different attachments for the spell. I wonder if they're going to be doing those as well.

(Hell, they'd better be included, otherwise they're not offering the complete set.)

 

Edited by Mad Jack
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In a nut shell:

I dont really care about 20 and 30 year old copyrights. Old IP should be free. Too much art languishes in archives because of copyright squabbles and there should be a reasonable point where its public domain

But.... I have no need for these and the size is so much smaller than the current generation that even the human sizes are halflings and the sculpting has come a long way since these were created

And... The price for the casts and the price of the shipping is far to pricey for my taste.

 

I think I will pass on this and find myself a modern sculpt of a large dragon instead!

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On 3/4/2018 at 2:18 PM, Beagle said:

Does anyone else think that the prices they’re asking for are too high, given that they already have the molds etc ?

I have to say that yes a little. For me it always is nice when a Kickstarter provides some kind of nice value proposition, not just a mass sale of things they already want to produce more or less at a retail price.  I want to support “old school” causes, but would like that support to feel a little more mutual. 

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On 6.3.2018 at 1:41 AM, Kangaroorex said:

In a nut shell:

I dont really care about 20 and 30 year old copyrights. Old IP should be free. Too much art languishes in archives because of copyright squabbles and there should be a reasonable point where its public domain

But.... I have no need for these and the size is so much smaller than the current generation that even the human sizes are halflings and the sculpting has come a long way since these were created

And... The price for the casts and the price of the shipping is far to pricey for my taste.

 

I think I will pass on this and find myself a modern sculpt of a large dragon instead!

 

Blame Disney or Bono for the last extension of uS copyright...

 

Anyway, would you tell a sculptor that his lifetime of work is no longer protected and that anyone can recast his creations and sell them?

 

There's nothing stopping a creator or his/her heirs from releasing copyright on the creations. But if they don't even know what they have...  

I wouldn't steal their inheritance. 

 

As for IP from defunct companies; much of that has been claimed by debtors. If they don't realise what they're sitting on, I guess it would be up to us to educate them so that they license out or sell it to someone who can manufcture the creation, to recoup some of their money.  

 

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