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Biggest point game


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So related to the biggest army question: what's the largest reasonable game? I've played 3000 point games, and I've played a lot of 2500 point games, and how ever many points the CtF game at Origins was (~3000?).

 

I'm pretty sure there's a spot where the game is too big to still be fun, but I've never come close to it. Where does the game become unmanageable? 5000 points? 10000 points?

 

PS

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It really all depends on three things: time available, board size and experience. I have a couple players with whom I could probably finish 12k per person games in an afternoon, easily. And I have new players who are still struggling with 2500 points each (at 5 to a 5' x 6' board).

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I've done 7k a couple of times, and while it was't so bad I can assure you that doing so with newbies isn't a good thing :o)

 

The thing to thin about with large games is that when there's not two players who are constantly rolling dice etc, the others who aren't getting 'a go' can get very bored. And that's not good, especially in a demo :o)

 

To remember D-Day's 60th anniversary my players and I will be refighting it (or as close an approximation as I can come up with). This is shaping up to be in the 10k mark, although we're struggling to get enough armour to make the forces not seem CAV heavy.

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At the local gaming store they have 4' x 8' tables, we pushed two of these together and had a 10,000 point battle. It was very manageable considering there was just me and the guy I was playing against. We luckily did not have to compete for the game room that morning, and thus had very few interruptions. So I would think any point value up to that number would be fun as long as it was interruption free.

 

Also the large group when they used to meet would do blind movement on paper, and when two enemy units would come into adjoining hexes, the tables were pressed together and the units had the option of moving away or fight. We also would have open hunting nights. We would press two tables together, roll a dice and see where we came in on the board, and all of us would have 2000 point armies. Sometimes we would have up to 8 people at those games. The best times during those games were when two people came in on the same table edge in the same spot, they would either team up or start the fight straight out of the gate.

 

Froy

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At the local gaming store they have 4' x 8' tables, we pushed two of these together and had a 10,000 point battle. It was very manageable considering there was just me and the guy I was playing against. We luckily did not have to compete for the game room that morning, and thus had very few interruptions. So I would think any point value up to that number would be fun as long as it was interruption free.

 

Also the large group when they used to meet would do blind movement on paper, and when two enemy units would come into adjoining hexes, the tables were pressed together and the units had the option of moving away or fight. We also would have open hunting nights. We would press two tables together, roll a dice and see where we came in on the board, and all of us would have 2000 point armies. Sometimes we would have up to 8 people at those games. The best times during those games were when two people came in on the same table edge in the same spot, they would either team up or start the fight straight out of the gate.

 

Froy

Yeah it was cool ::):

 

 

*sigh*

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At four or more players, or 5K or more, per side, the game starts to slow down, and you'll have to start taking liberties with the initiative cards. As the GM, I sometimes look ahead in the cards, and if the next card won't affect what's going on with the currently activated player, I activate that card.

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In line with what Frosh said - When testing Warlord here we would have 8 or so people and if the next card was a player not involved in the current fight, we'd let them go on ahead.

 

This sped things up a lot, but requires a dedicated (non-participant) referee.

 

This is acceptable, but not mandatory. Run things how you are comfortable, and try not to confuse your players with too much going on.

 

An example:Set the table up like this

ACEG

-------

BDFH

A - attacks B across the table, the next card is for E, who is not involved, and is not likely to attack A or B, so E gets to go concurrently, and E will likely attack F, C, or G. Say E hits G, if the next card is C,D,F, or H, they get to go, unless they then declare an action against A,B, E, or G, because those players are already engaged. Gets a little confusing, which is why the referee needs to be a non-participant.

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An example:Set the table up like this

ACEG

-------

BDFH

A - attacks B across the table, the next card is for E, who is not involved, and is not likely to attack A or B, so E gets to go concurrently, and E will likely attack F, C, or G. Say E hits G, if the next card is C,D,F, or H, they get to go, unless they then declare an action against A,B, E, or G, because those players are already engaged. Gets a little confusing, which is why the referee needs to be a non-participant.

:wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko:

 

Thanks for making my head hurt Bryan ::P: lol

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After this last week, I have told the players that I will be bringing a stopwatch for future games, since some were taking an inordinately long time to decide that they were not going to do anything with one of their sections.

 

Again, I think a lot of it comes down to player experience - the more experienced player can handle a larger game, but the new players are going to struggle even with a smaller game.

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I disagree with playing ahead. The game doesn't slow down that much. We have played 10k or more per side and have never bogged down.

 

Maybe with beginners, but my group has been playing less then 6 months and we are already capable of pushing a force that size.

 

With the ranges in this game, you better be dang sure that someone isn't going to effect an active player before you flip a card.

 

I just think that the game is fast enough without having to speed it up. One of the things we do is to use like colored dice for attacker and defender. The dice colors are nominated for weapon systems and then for weapons. (ie, black for pbg #1, red for pbg #2, blue for DFM, etc)

 

This really speeds things up.

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Another tip to speed things up, and I've posted this before:

Get a pill-box with two rows of five boxes. Label the boxes like this:

[TL_][1][2][3][4]

[ECM][1][2][3][4]

 

Attacker rolls dice in the top row, defender rolls dice in the bottom row. That way, you don't have to remember colors.

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Heh, Both of my nieces, 13 and 10 years old seem to be doing quite well with their 7500 point armies, although we started them with 2 sections at 3000 points. the largest game to date was the Wild Apache Defensive draw we played a few months ago.

 

It was 22,500 points per side, My wife's entire spear was deployed defensively on our attic floor, and I split the Delgado Mecha Assault troop into 2 turma sized elements hitting at each flank. Each turn took about 1 to 2 hours or so, and we only played a turn or two a night.

 

We played the scenario out for about 3 days, throuhout the week, and I wrapped it up on the weekend. In larger combined arms games, the idea is to be able to do more with what you have per turn, and I mean more, not just kill CAVs quicker.

 

When you get into those 10K plus combined arms game, thats when you get a real measure of whats balanced or not, because time depends on,

 

1) how fast is your army overall, manuever is a key factor. not just to get into position but to get out of it when the need be. that will factor overall into the game.

 

2) How flexible is your army at the section level, can they really handle anything thrown at them? or do you depend on other specialized units to to handle their enemies outside of their doctrine, IE a pure superiority section may find itself engaged by heavy soft targets, what, do you pull back and try to manuever that section of sabretooths.

 

hah! you just defeated your own manuever, and your wasting time which may or may not be a factor in a later turn! hope you get the next init card.

 

3) how resiliant is your army, can you replace damaged units effectively or do you tend to commit everything to action in a blitz; effective tactics for short term strategy, but collaspes if your not resiliant enough to hold what you've taken after the blitz.

 

Do you rotate units? or do you commit everything to your objective? that will dictate the time of the overall game.

 

4) Color coded dice speed things up dramatically; allow the attacking player to roll both sets of dice, for the attacker and defender, the defender watches as the dice are matched up, saves time tremendously, if you don't mind "your fate not being in your hands when your being attacked"

 

Speeds things up considerably.

 

5) you can split the game itself into objectives, or even part of a multiplayer force. all players play out the turn, the ref makes sure the turn is complete before everyone moves on to the next turn.

 

My personal opinion, is you haven't fully captured the magic of CAV until you've played a few combined arms past 10K.

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Heh, Both of my nieces, 13 and 10 years old seem to be doing quite well with their 7500 point armies, although we started them with 2 sections at 3000 points. the largest game to date was the Wild Apache Defensive draw we played a few months ago.

 

It was 22,500 points per side, My wife's entire spear was deployed defensively on our attic floor, and I split the Delgado Mecha Assault troop into 2 turma sized elements hitting at each flank. Each turn took about 1 to 2 hours or so, and we only played a turn or two a night.

Holy Mole-eee!

 

One can only dream!!

 

I thought I started to get a nice amount of CAVs and support Vehicles...

 

KAMUT, how many CAVs do you personally have??

- and how about your wife??

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I am hoping to bring as much of the collection to Guildcon, but Zulu is in need of paint. lets just say, Lone Wolf Company is a fairly respectable battleforce, and comprises at just over half of the 7th Division UTDF. if you've been catching the fluff I put out, you should be able to estimate that for yourself.

 

hehehehe

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