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Integral Bases aka "Broccoli"


Neyuttad
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This is simply the miniatures equivalent of the player's argument over painted and unpainted armies.

 

There will never be a consensus, because the arguments are based around aesthetics and individual preference.

 

I have an enormous collection of miniatures because I've been collecting them for close to thirty years as an RPG and wargamer from several systems. I'm possibly a rarity in having far more painted than unpainted at that level of collection. I have more miniatures than the four local game stores carry in stock. All that, and all I can offer is personal opinion, and mine means no more than any other.

 

I'm an RPG and wargamer first, and a painter after that. I prefer painted models, and sometimes dabble in conversions, but I'm not fond of basing. If a wargame needs it, I'm happy to slap a textured base on a round or square base, and texture to blend the two, even if the texture is simply added sand. I have several Reaper figures I mounted on 20mm bases for other games, and I plan on using magnetic bases to allow me to use them with 25mm bases as well for Warlord.

 

In the end, we need to respect other people's views. Some people do not like to paint. Some people want simple accessibility without having to assemble models. Some like the prepainted plastics. Some like to spend 40+ hours on single figures as works of art. Some are blends between those ideas, or even hold far differing ideals. Nobody represents all gamer styles equally.

 

None of those styles are wrong, unless you insist yours is the only 'right' one.

 

Someone noted that Reaper is the most successful miniatures company in business. Perhaps it is their willingness to respect and cater to those different aspects of the hobby that has made them so.

 

Reaper does not insist you paint the models you buy. They do not insist you use only their models. They make an incredibly diverse collection of models that can be used by gamers for an even wider range of purposes. Complaining they should only cater to your portion of the hobby is ludicrous.

 

It is easier to rebase a model for someone who likes to model than to base a model for someone who doesn't. Reaper doesn't even make you rebase every model. If you find one you like, rebase it, or find one to match it from their other line. The modeler has a choice, to casual player, even the casual player like some I know with several hundred figures, doesn't.

 

To expect others to work harder just so you don't have to, expecially when you have other choices and they do not, is selfish, and a poor business choice for Reaper.

 

People don't have to like the textured bases. Enough do, or at least do not mind, that is in Reaper's best interest to make product with textured bases. Enough do, that Reaper has not produced more Warlord figures than DHL figures. Reaper is a business, and they will produce what is needed to be a sucsessful business. Their track record suggests a good market for textured bases exist, even if some hobbyists don't like them.

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How about a broccoli base recycling program? We ship our detatched broccoli bases back to reaper, they get to reuse the metal, and for every so many we send back, we get a free mini!!

 

This has possiblities.

 

If it's Reaper pewter, you may trade it (ounce for ounce) at Reapercons (broccoli bases included. I dunno about other times of the year...

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Just for grins, I have a sampling of data cards sitting on my shelf near the computer desk in my office. There are 22 cards in the stack. Of those 22 cards:

 

13 are in what I would consider to be "mint" condition, with no printing or packaging flaws to speak of.

5 are flawed, but passeable; they have mostly minor damage from adhering to the packaging, and one has some slight "ghosting" of the printing

4 are absolutely awful; one is faded (both front and back), bent, incompletely printed, and stuck to the package - the other three are have various spots of major adhesion to the packaging, damaging the cards

 

The cards, both good and bad, have come from packages purchased anywhere from 2 weeks ago to a year ago or more. Indirectly related, I also got a blister of grunts as recent as a month or so ago that had no card.

 

I'm not making any complaints, just providing some hard data from one consumer.

 

~v

P.S. None were on broccoli bases, however... :blink:

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The cards, both good and bad, have come from packages purchased anywhere from 2 weeks ago to a year ago or more. Indirectly related, I also got a blister of grunts as recent as a month or so ago that had no card.

 

That could easily be your store, though. I work in a game store. It's located in the mall, and it has had some pretty major sales over the years. So we have pretty decent product turnover, I would guess well above what a lot of game stores get. (I recall going in another store in town a couple of years ago and seeing a pretty fair collection of D&D 2nd Edition books on the shelf...) We have products that have been on the shelf for 5+ years. We still have some Warlord figures from before the cards were packaged with the figures (which really hasn't been that long). Heck, we have Ral Partha minis, and I mean RP minis, not repackaged Iron Wind Metal ones. There's also the distributor factor. If your store's distributor bought 20 of whatever figure when it came out prior to cards being packaged with figs and that particular figure isn't a big seller, they might still have a few they're sending out to stores. The game industry is a lot smaller than people think, I suspect. I play designer board games, and print runs for a decent size game are probably somewhere around 5,000 to 10,000 units. That's for the whole country, and that print run can take years to sell out of stores and distributors.

 

As for integral bases... as a painter I agree, what a pain! What I'll often do is clipper down the base a fair amount and glue it to a slotta or something like. Then I have a few options. Wood putty is cheap and works pretty well, though it's got a short window of opportunity for texturing it, and the texturing options are more limited. Often what I'll do is just build up layers of gravel around the base - superglue, dip in the gravel, superglue and dip again until the lip of the integral base blends in. It's pretty quick and the supplies for that are pretty cheap. The downside of those two options is they really work best for wilderness style bases. If the texture is something like cobblestones, I won't even clipper, just glue and build up GS around it to match. But if I want to be able to have a sculpted base or pre-made base or something, then it's a fair bit of work to get something completely off an integral base, and I'd have to be seriously into a basing concept to bother about that. I have to add my vote to the no broccoli base, though. Integral is one thing, but the broccoli style is harder to deal with and if you don't rebase seems to chip really easily.

 

That's me personally as a painter. In terms of customers at work, I think the majority are RPG players who prefer one piece minis and thus like the integral base. We sell boatloads more Dark Heaven figures than Warlord. Whenever a customer checks out with a multi-part DH fig I always mention it to them in case they didn't realise, and at least half will put that figure back in favour of a one piece. In the whole store we carry maybe 8-10 packs of bases at one time, that being different sizes of bases over four different miniature lines. Based on how much of those we sell (not many) and to whom (hardcore painters, wargame players), I don't think very many of the DH minis are being rebased. My boss is one of the veteran painters of the area, and he just glues bases down on top of pieces of plastic or spare checkers pieces or whatever as often as not, and rarely bothers about trying to blend the base in. He even just plunks figures down like that on dioramas, so he has the option of taking figs off to use in games or having them as part of the scene.

 

As far as I can tell from our sales and the response of our customers, Reaper is serving the needs of the RPG player very well with the Dark Heaven line. Things vary a lot regionally, so I couldn't say how well that reflects sales in the country as a whole. But you can also get a skewed opinion of things judging by the Internet. When I started painting three years ago, and still to a fair degree, Rackham seemed to be the bee's knees of minis. They carried them where I work for a couple of years. And last year we sent them all back. The decision was made because we had not sold more than a handful of Rackham minis in any of three stores over a one year period of time which included at least two major sales. That's no knock on Rackham, I'm willing to bet that they sell gangbusters from online stores and in major cities. It's also no knock on the opinion that integral bases suck. I'm just trying to give an example of how internet painter group preferences might not always reflect the preferences of the mini customer base as a whole.

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Wren has it.

 

In support of an earlier post, I'd like to say that most people I know, if they impulse-bought a metal miniature, wouldn't have any clue how to glue it, whereas generic spray-on all-primer will work fine for painting, generic $2 shop super glue will not hold metal, more especially it will not hold metal to plastic. Locally, a proper super glue is impossible to buy, and even many experienced collectors don't know what a proper super-glue is, while it's easy to get the right primer and you can stumble across the right primer readilly even out here in the sticks.

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::D:::P: I should hope that none of them were on brocoli bases. Those would have to be Warlord figures which use slotta bases. ::P:::D:

 

I just got Anwar and three Khamsin Lancers for Warlord and all of them have Broccoli bases.

 

Before I got them I hated Broccoli bases and now i like them. One of the most annoying things about minis to me, besides the mold lines and flash, is the slotted base. i always have to come up with some way to cover it up and it is far too time consuming. The broccoli bases cover up the slots nicely, except the lancers who only half cover it, but that is more than a tab does. I usually end up cutting the tab off the bottom and gluing them onto non-slotted bases that I have to buy separately. I would much rather the minis came on some form of broccoli base that would cover the slot.

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Your right the cavalry do come on bases, although not all of them are brocoli bases. Dealing with cavalry on tabs would be a royal pain, the horses legs are much stronger when rigidly attached to a base rather than being balanced on a tab. I like these better too. It gives the cavalry some additional height that makes them really stand out from the infantry.

 

You can see my cavalry here: Crusader Heavy Cavalry

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I was wondering why the Dark Heaven Legend mini's couldn't have the slotted bases like the Warlord line. To my knowledge (limited though it may be) most painters cut the DHL minis off the base provided to base them onto a base of their choice. It seems it would make people happier if they didn't have to go to the trouble of cutting the mini from it's base.

 

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

 

Ken

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It's funny how many people were disgruntled about having that topic brought yet again in that old thread, haha, now here we are over 2 years later!

 

To sum it up, here's the most relevant quote from that particular dialog that was linked:

 

"Bottom line is: Dark Heaven is staying with integral bases, and Warlord is staying with slotted bases. We will try to mix up the actual textures of the integral bases from time to time."

 

Quote from Reaper Ron

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