Problem with citadel shades: too shiny and dry white in some spots :/

[Dosani]

Hi, i got many citadel shades as i read that they are very good so i gave them a try. I had previously experienced with the Reaper ones and didnt like them too much , they leave a dirty look IMO. But with the citadel ones, the problem is other think altogether: agrax earthshade dries extremely shiny and if i dilute it a little, it tends to dry white in some places. You can see the results in the pictures :(

 

I was wondering if this is normal, i mean is this shiny? Is there any solution to it? I searched in the dakka dakka forums and did everything, shaking as hell, mixed the shade with an drink stirrer, even put the pots in warm water in hopes this make the components mix. This helped in a way, now it doesnt get white so easily, but its still shiny as hell. Any advice, and most of all experiences with this shades?

 

i found that most of the info on the internet just praises them for being too incredible and useful, but if all the shades leaves this shiny on the model, i think nobody did an honest review about them. thanks again for all your help, i am looking to fix them, although if i cant i probably sell them :(

 

The pics are of several zombies that i painted just for testing as this shades ruined my work on one that was nearly finished :( 

 

Please any help its welcome. Are all citadel shades so shiny? seems to me that Agrax Earthshade is the one that is worst in this aspect, i already changed 3 bottles and all with the same problem. Here in my country we dont have too many hobby stores, so most of the paints are not fresh, some citadel bottles shows the date 2013 or 2011, although i bought some citadel paints that are even older and i dont have any problem with them! I mostly paint with Reaper though, just dont love reaper washes , dont know how to use them properly i guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Dosani
pics where of bad quality

[Guindyloo]

The shininess is the nature of the beast with any wash. It's one of the reasons that I don't prefer using washes at all. You can dull them back down with something like Dullcoate. But overall I find GW's paints and whatnot to be on the shinier side. I think rather than it being a case of people not being honest about it, I think it's more of a case that some people aren't bothered by more of a glossy finish and some people are.

The white spots are likely due to diluting the shade with water. I don't have a source for it, but I heard (I think during a painting livestream) that Citadel's shades are not meant to be thinned with water; water actually can cause them to crystallize. I have still diluted with water and not had an issue, but if I use a wash, it is in very concentrated areas and using very little. But I suspect that the crystallization is what you're seeing. Try thinning with a medium instead like a matte medium or airbrush thinner, something like that. If you use a matte medium, you may be able to dull down the shine at the same time.

[Dosani]

1 minute ago, Guindyloo said:

The shininess is the nature of the beast with any wash. It's one of the reasons that I don't prefer using washes at all. You can dull them back down with something like Dullcoate. But overall I find GW's paints and whatnot to be on the shinier side. I think rather than it being a case of people not being honest about it, I think it's more of a case that some people aren't bothered by more of a glossy finish and some people are.

The white spots are likely due to diluting the shade with water. I don't have a source for it, but I heard (I think during a painting livestream) that Citadel's shades are not meant to be thinned with water; water actually can cause them to crystallize. I have still diluted with water and not had an issue, but if I use a wash, it is in very concentrated areas and using very little. But I suspect that the crystallization is what you're seeing. Try thinning with a medium instead like a matte medium or airbrush thinner, something like that. If you use a matte medium, you may be able to dull down the shine at the same time.

 

Thanks for the info! its just that they work so well, they are perfect EXCEPT for the shininess and white spots, its mostly agrax earthshade. I dont varnish will dullcote as its not available here, what do you think of the reaper and secret weapon washes? are they better in this aspect?

[Guindyloo]

Honestly I can't speak to the different qualities of different washes because I really use them so little. It's usually only on terrain/bases and the shininess always irks me because I don't use Dullcote due to the humidity here being too high for me to use aerosol products in general so I'd rather avoid the problem over trying to find a solution.

[Cyradis]

The shininess doesn't bug me with what I use them for; I use washes almost exclusively for harsh nooks and crannies, like in chainmail and broccoli bases. I'll also use them to pull out the different strands of hair so I can then highlight them. Both of these uses don't create too much shine. Honestly, the shade/wash type paints are the only stuff from Citadel that I even have a use for. The other stuff is like glue. I haven't tried washes from other brands. If I need a color aside from the Earthshade or Nuln Oil I make my own by thinning my paint, often even if it is a brown or black. 

Dullcoat may be the best for knocking off shine, but there are also matte varnishes you can brush on. Not quite as strong as the spray on, but it would be worth trying. 

[Dosani]

So most of the washes are shiny, i am right?  I tried Reaper ones and they are not shiny but they stain everything , leaving a dirty look on the mini. Are Secret weapon washes shiny too?

 

Usually i use only diluted paint, but what i dont like about it is that its irregular, it doesnt get in all the nooks and crannies. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Smigg the Miserable]

I use a bunch of citadel shades in my own paining and mostly find them fine in terms of shininess.  However, I did get one pot of Agrax Earthshade that dried really glossy.  Like you I did all the stuff people suggest with shaking it up and all that, but everything I put it on just came out positively gleaming.  I figure maybe it was just a bad batch or one of their actual gloss washes got mislabeled.  I bought another pot and that one worked perfectly normally, along with the rest of my shades.

[Guindyloo]

That's true, I forgot that they came out with glossy versions of their shades. Your store may have gotten a batch of mislabeled bottles if you've returned and exchanged multiple times.

I admit, I can't really tell what level of glossy your zombies came out as because your pictures are blurry so I thought that the level of shine coming off of them was an artifact of that, but if you're getting a mirror like shine from them, that is not normal Agrax Earthshade behaviour. I find the shades to leave more of a satin finish level of shine, not a glossy sheen. 

[Cyradis]

How much of the shade are you applying to the surface? I noticed that quantity was proportional to the shininess. I guess - is the surface shinier in the nooks and crannies that got pools of the stuff? 

[Dosani]

3 hours ago, Guindyloo said:

That's true, I forgot that they came out with glossy versions of their shades. Your store may have gotten a batch of mislabeled bottles if you've returned and exchanged multiple times.

I admit, I can't really tell what level of glossy your zombies came out as because your pictures are blurry so I thought that the level of shine coming off of them was an artifact of that, but if you're getting a mirror like shine from them, that is not normal Agrax Earthshade behaviour. I find the shades to leave more of a satin finish level of shine, not a glossy sheen. 

 

Sorry for the pics quality , i took them in the night and with too much light :(  I just reposted the pics with better quality.  The glossy sheen its more evident when using the Agrax Earthshade or Drakenhof nightshade, some others like Athonian Camoshade are more matte. This is my 3rd Agrax bottle, i bought the first 2 from a local store, and the last one from a store from another city and all of them has this problem, although i must admit that i dont know if these are old paints as i believe the production date that is under the bottle is 2013.  Is this the production / expiration date ?  

 

Also can you please post any pic that shows how the Agrax normaly behaves ? That would be nice for comparison :)

3 hours ago, Cyradis said:

How much of the shade are you applying to the surface? I noticed that quantity was proportional to the shininess. I guess - is the surface shinier in the nooks and crannies that got pools of the stuff? 

 

i used a lot on one zombie, and in other i diluted it with water, this was the worst as this white patches appeared, also tried to apply without diluting but in a more localized way, still it got shiny :(

 

I dont know if all the commercial washes tend to be like this, i am intrigued by the Secret Weapon washes, although maybe they are not so necessary, maybe its easier to just dilute paint , i dont know

[DocPiske]

Secret weapon washes are darker but not glossy.

 

In my experience the white patches are the matting agent falling out of suspension and pooling. Thinning with Reaper flow improver may be better than water, but just using your brush to spread the shade and then sending a few minutes mopping up the excess as it pools should help. Using a matte acrylic medium to thin will help too. You can get a 8 ounce or so bottle for ~$10 US, and it will last you for years.

[Dosani]

28 minutes ago, DocPiske said:

Secret weapon washes are darker but not glossy.

 

In my experience the white patches are the matting agent falling out of suspension and pooling. Thinning with Reaper flow improver may be better than water, but just using your brush to spread the shade and then sending a few minutes mopping up the excess as it pools should help. Using a matte acrylic medium to thin will help too. You can get a 8 ounce or so bottle for ~$10 US, and it will last you for years.

 

Thanks for the info about Secret Weapon washes, by the way if you have some pictures about the SW washes i will be grateful :)  I didnt see any matte medium here in my country , i will try and search for it. So in your experience the differences between SW washes and citadel are notable, i am right? 

[DocPiske]

Yes, SW washes are darker and less transparent, more similar to an ink.

[Auberon]

If you ever use the Vallejo washes keep in mind that you do not want to cut them with water either.  If you do you'll end up with the same issue of white residue in the crevices.  I don't remember them being glossy when dry, but it's been a while since I last washed anything with them.

[Dosani]

Thanks for all the wonderful info!  According to your experiences, how much time do citadel/SW/Vallejo washes have before they start to deteriorate? 2-4 years perhaps?