suspended Overturn Rising Sands

[MonkeySloth]

So I'm more the likely backing as I could afford to loose $130.  Having a guy that speaks some Chinese and has experience with manufacturing there, even though it's in a different filed, is a big plus.  Cost of what we're getting is still a concern but I've never backed a project before where the cost of living is significantly lower then the West so that might be part of why they can offer some prices (outside of the loss leader with expensive add ons).

 

They're all Pakistani, living in Pakistan currently, but several of them having lived in Canada at one point in their lives.

 

4 hours ago, cmorse said:

 

Where are you getting the idea that the minis are in production? I thought they said the ones they were showing so far were 3d prints.

 

I think this come from a previous post of mine where some of the minis looked like production samples vs 3d prints (which they've confirmed they're all prints) due to some flaws on the base that looked like it came from a mold.  So sorry about that.

 

6 hours ago, Knight of the Dinner Table said:

I'm down to $1. It might not be a scam, but to me they lack the skills to make it happen (not enough communication, calling backers "rude", breaking promises) ... they lack social skills, they don't take their backers seriously etc ...

 

I think this is a cultural thing vs being rude in general and at least the one person I saw them calling out was being a jerk so I don't blame them.  I'm kind of tired of people running KSers just enabling toxic comments sections for fear of losing a baker or too so I've enjoyed this.

 

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 7:28 PM, ced1106 said:

 

The spreadsheet notes no project management experience or blind playtesting by reviewers.



 

That's incorrect.  There's been no blind playtesting but there has been by reviewers.  But since I just want this for parts, as most games on KSer, I could really care less about how it plays.

 

And they don't state they don't have project management experience just no experience in making a miniatures game.  Still obviously a concern for some people but not the same.

 

They also have some well off backer who's invested in the company at some level as he pays their travel costs.

Edited June 26, 2018 by MonkeySloth

[Knight of the Dinner Table]

There is one thing that worries me above all ... it's the huge gap between the professionalism of some parts of the main page (the pledge level contents with all those small, fancy pictures etc) and the amateurism of other parts (crucial information missing etc). I simply cannot reconcile those two extremes with the same people ...

[Thes Hunter]

So anyone else remember a set of miniatures based KS projects that promised a bunch of things, duped artists into providing excellent content with the promise of payment later? 

 

Ice Age Miniatures by Dina Walker ring a bell?

 

not saying these guys are involved, just similar red flags are popping up for me.

 

I hope I’m wrong, cause I want access to those buildings. 

 

[odinsgrandson]

On 6/22/2018 at 6:09 PM, Marvin said:

I'm just not feeling safe enough with this one. The nebulous nature of their identity, as I believe someone put it, is a big flag for me. The prices also are in that too-good-to-be-true area that always scares me, though the idea that the core is a loss-leader or whatnot for the add-ons is a reasonable notion. I'd noticed that structuring. Still... I've grown entirely too conservative for a project this big with these flags. Ignorance or malevolence--I fear one or the other.

 

 

The loss leader model can be a good one in some industries- but I honestly can't see it working for a Kickstarter, where the margins are often too tight already.

 

I tend to worry about new companies that are convinced that they can offer a better deal than anyone.  I mean, if CMON or Reaper offer bundles of super cheap minis, I feel like I can trust that they've done the math.  But when it is a company that hasn't done minis in the past, I usually think that they've missed something in their calculation of expenses.

[Knight of the Dinner Table]

Well ... their arguments are: They don't want to make a huge profit (like CMON?), they just want to publish their game. They have an unknown manufacturer that can offer Monolith quality at a cheaper price ...

[odinsgrandson]

That reminds me of an episode of The Office where a group broke off and stole all of their old clients.  They think their little business is doing great until they bring in an accountant:

"Why do you think that no one else can offer these prices?"
"Um... corporate greed?"

 

 

[Knight of the Dinner Table]

They have posted the rule book ... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-kYejfh6L0FHFtTY4JiFFA7yegDtOb6M/view

 

It's a pity that I do not think they will deliver (in an acceptable time-frame) ... some of the things in the rule book are not bad (as are the miniature renders, the terrain and the boards) ...

[Phoenix Rising]

I'm going to continue watching this. The thought of picking up an entire campaign worth of Middle Eastern figures is really interesting, but it seems a bit risky...

[Maledrakh]

This campaign is solidly in the "sounds too good to be true" category for me.

Even though I do not doubt the creators intent to make this, I do doubt their ability to.

 

I do hope they will follow through and put my misgivings to shame here.

 

[Knight of the Dinner Table]

As I posted the thread ... I think I should warn everybody: A backer compared the "WIP rule book" Foxtales uploaded to the Massive Darkness rule book. They copied a number of parts (almost) verbatim (though they included a couple of typos and grammar mistakes to camouflage it).

[odinsgrandson]

Ok, I had heard that the Overturn rule book had plagiarized Massive Darkness.

Oddly enough- the same thing happened with LOAD (the WIP rulebook was copied from Rum and Bones).  From what I heard, Archon had hired an outside game designer, and put the blame entirely on him (and got someone new to make the rules that shipped with LOAD).  It makes me wonder if the guy that plagiarized CMON last time is still getting work in the industry.

[Phoenix Rising]

4 hours ago, Knight of the Dinner Table said:

As I posted the thread ... I think I should warn everybody: A backer compared the "WIP rule book" Foxtales uploaded to the Massive Darkness rule book. They copied a number of parts (almost) verbatim (though they included a couple of typos and grammar mistakes to camouflage it).

 

And that is, unfortunately, enough to sink it with me. Copying other peoples' stuff is right out.

[Kro]

I'd suggest anyone backing read through the BGG threads about this too. I've just reduced my pledge to $1 to keep watching, and plan on bailing completely before the end. It seems to be a scam. With the comments in an uproar about the rules they go and release another update not mentioning it at all, pretending nothing is askew. I'd assume they're trying to maintain appearances for the people not reading the comments.

 

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/2012260/game-overturn-rising-sands-and-company-foxtales-st/page/5 

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29523158#29523158

 

Makes me sad, I was really looking forward to some of those minis, and the buildings :(

 

[Doug Sundseth]

It's entirely possible (I haven't read either of the rulebooks in question), that copying the rules is entirely legal. Game rules (other than creative elements that are not necessary for the play of the game) are limited in their copyrightability, at least in the US.

 

Here's the document from the US Copyright Office:

 

https://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.pdf

 

None of which is to say that I'll be giving them money, just that the outrage here might be misplaced.

[Knight of the Dinner Table]

I always thought that you might not be able to copyright rules in the way that you cannot copyright things like "you must draw cards" or "move 2 hexes" ... but that you can copyright the way those rules (especially whole paragraphs) are worded ... but then ... I don't know much about US laws.

I also don't know if US law applies (because Kickstarter) or Canadian law (because official seat of the company) or international (Berne Convention I think).

Edited July 14, 2018 by Knight of the Dinner Table