suspended Overturn Rising Sands

[Bruunwald]

I hadn't seen this thread before, but let me tell you all that reading through it has been an enjoyable way to spend my lunch.

 

Not that I enjoy seeing anybody inconvenienced at all.

 

But it has been quite a page-turner.

[Knight of the Dinner Table]

The problem is:

 

- it will get funded (for whatever reasons, not enough people are pulling out and the funding level was low)

- with such low funding, I do not think it is possible to produce the game (even if the creators wanted)

 

It looks more like they (no matter their original intentions) are now out to get as much money from the backers as they can. From what I've read, even the low funding goal is a year's salary for three people in Pakistan.

[Smokestack]

17 minutes ago, Knight of the Dinner Table said:

From what I've read, even the low funding goal is a year's salary for three people in Pakistan.

I was curious, so did a google search. Average salary in Pakistan is $1500/ year. So st $45,000 that’s 3 people for 10 years. 

 

Not bad. 

[Knight of the Dinner Table]

Wow ... even if Kickstarter takes its cut ...

[CorallineAlgae]

[Smokestack]

So, I decided to back again. I don't feel like retyping, but here is what I posted in the comments,

 

Hello everyone. I was a day 1 backer who dropped out on Day 4. I was pretty rough on the creator from the beginning and dropped out at the time because I wasn't sure the project would be delivered.

 

I am back, but not for the reason some of the others have rejoined. I don't disagree with the evidence and what most of the others here have said, but. I do think some of the comments went over board. For the most part most of you have done a great job of just keeping people informed. And I respect an appreciate it, especially posts like the ones from Impact games. However the main reason I have decided to back this was a comment yesterday that asked if people had brought up whether this project would be used to fund terrorism. That comment has turned me to want to support Foxtail. Do I think they will deliver? At this point I don't care. I hope they do. But at this point I am only here to support them.

I am backing at $1.00. Because I really cant afford a full pledge. I will up if I can during the pledge manager to show my support. I have a soft spot for underdogs... Like the Tyrion quote about bastards. For the record, I am not against any of you here. I just don't like the hate I have seen (again not universal). If the Foxtail guys are not on the up and up, fine but they are human, and I am willing to risk my $1 to find out.

[Darsc Zacal]

I have a bit of a different take.

I don't know that this is a scam, though it certainly has many of the earmarks of one.

 

But I also don't believe that naivety, incompetence, arrogance, and outright stupidity should be rewarded. Especially when it comes to my money.

 

These project creators, especially early in the kickstarter, were given a lot of good advice about their project which they ignored or responded very negatively to.

 

 

[Glamberry]

There are too many contradictions. I also gave them the benefit of the doubt in the beginning thinking they just are newcomers. But after seeing all the stuff going on and seeing their apology update I don't think so anymore. That apology text was very well put together and very calculated with the amount of information given. They didn't address multiple issues on purpose and some of their explanations don't make any sense at all. If that was the alpha version (which usually is not prettied up with design elements) why would you have someone proofread that? Why would they go ahead with the campaign after loosing so many backers when most people said they would back if they came back with a more solid campaign? Why would they not release the beta rules if they allegedly have them? They claim language problems caused this but when asked in the beginning of they will have professional translation they answered that they feel comfortable enough with their English and that it won't be necessary (I remember that comment specifically!). 

 

Beyond all I am disappointed in Kickstarter to let this go ahead like this. They should have at least done what they did to Signum. Freeze and have a good look at the claims. I wonder how many backers are unaware of what is going on...

 

 

[Knight of the Dinner Table]

as far as I remember: $1 does not get you into the pledge manager ...

[ced1106]

Peter Eagles: "The owner of the KS account also has a shell corporation registered in Canada named Edgecliffe Systems that was used to scam contractors here around Mississauga, Ontario. ... Luckily we only lost 30 days of work from Azhar ripping us off, but it was still tens of thousands, as we were contracted to build tech solutions for their family in Pakistan."

 

Personally, I'd like to see more evidence, but, given everything else that's happened, I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. Remember that the Ice Age Miniatures KS was run by people who were trying to pitch reality shows, offered guitar books, and sold furniture...

 

More info : https://www.facebook.com/groups/theboardgamegroup/permalink/1805879409466070/

Edited July 18, 2018 by ced1106

[odinsgrandson]

I had heard about the plagiarized rulebook, but I hadn't heard about the plagiarized company profile, bio, returns policy, facebook bio,  company logo, etc.

If it were just the rulebook, I feel like it is possible for it to happen by mistake (it is still plagiarism, but maybe they hired someone to write their rules or convert them into an English rulebook with a full layout, and they went way too far, right?).

With the other plagiarisms involved, I can't really see a way to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I really don't see any way that so much clear copy and pasting can be anything but deliberate.

There's always a question about whether this represents incompetence or a scam, but either way, anyone choosing to back this project needs to be prepared to lose your money.

Edited July 18, 2018 by odinsgrandson

[odinsgrandson]

I think it comes from the way that we usually feel like a wronged party should be defended.  We like rooting for the underdog.

First off- there are so many legitimate things to accuse Foxtale of, that it seems absolutely ludicrous to also make up allegations.

 

This kickstarter is run by people I believe to be Pakistani criminals (copyright violations and conspiracy to commit fraud).  The Pakistani part is a red flag only because there's no way to hold them accountable under US or Canadian law, but not for any other reason.  The bigotry is a real shame.

 

Do I think it is a good idea to back this kickstarter?  Well, not if you see your money as anything other than a donation towards whatever these guys want to do with it (probably not deliver a game, but I'm sure they'll spend it).

But I'm not actually against donating $1 to keep an eye on something like this.  I paid $1 to keep an eye on the Confrontation kickstarter, even though I have no confidence that it will deliver anything.

 

I honestly do hope that Kickstarter gets around to evaluating CMON's claim against Foxtale before the last 24 hours are up.  There is still time for KS to take the project down (as they did with Rising Sands with much shakier claims of copyright violation).

The reason that this may not happen is because Foxtale have claimed that they will not use the plagiarized rulebook that they presented- that might be enough for Kickstarter to let this one take its natural course. 

 

[ladystorm]

[MOD]

posts removed

 

Stay on Topic.

[/MOD]

 

 

[Smokestack]

1 minute ago, Guindyloo said:

 

This project is still likely a scam, people still are taking a risk by choosing to back it.

 

I don’t disagree with this. For my part I believe that the creator has done some really mind blowingly dumb things. They have done everything they are being accused of. I am not sure if they are scammers or just really dumb. I don’t think it will deliver, but $1 is not a huge risk. If they are just dumb, I feel bad for them.

[Maledrakh]

This is the kind of Kickstarter campaign that highlights the "buyer beware" bit of kickstarter.

 

also, the Kickstarter company might want to be more proactive when something most likely will add to giving Kickstarter and crowdfunding in general a bad name.