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CAV: Strike Ops III Kickstarter September 19th 2018


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On 10/11/2018 at 8:19 AM, kristof65 said:

I have some more thoughts I'd like to share about the state of the KS, but have decided that I will wait and do an "after action report" when the KS is done, as I don't want to unduly disrupt the squad in the middle of this battle (KS).  

Here's my after action report:

First off, glad to see that this KS did outfund the last one, even if it wasn't by a lot.  Really glad the terrain options came back. 

I think it could have done a lot better, though, and I think these three factors are significant contributors to why it was held back a bit:

  1. The heavy delays of the previous KS.   
  2. The frequent "reshuffling" of stretch goals
  3. People are BSR'd out. 

Not much could be done about #1.  It is what it is now, and I think CAVBOSS did a great job in explaining what had happened, and how things were going to be better going forward. 

#2 was a bit worrying to me.  I have a enough trust in CAVBOSS that I wasn't worried for the sake of the KS being able to fulfill, but I was worried about people's perception of it.  Often reshuffling and and promising more and more and more by continually lowering stretch goals frequently is a sign that the creator hasn't really done their homework, and can be a caution flag that the KS will suffer heavy delays and/or even fail to deliver. Had I been a brand new backer to CAV:SO and Talon Games, that caution flag, combined with seeing the delays from the previous KS would have been enough to make me seriously question whether I should back. 

#3 - People are Big Stompy Roboted  out.  I know to all you mech fans that seems unlikely, but honestly, as I looked at my haul of CAVs from the first two Kickstarters, I honestly couldn't bring myself to buy hordes more.  Based on how the re-release of the terrain expansion seems to have corresponded with the the totals rising significantly again, I don't think I'm wrong in guessing that was a factor for a large number of people besides me, too.

 I think the next CAV KS will be able to do really well if it focuses primarily on vehicles and aircraft, and maybe even more terrain pieces. 


 

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I am certainly thrilled with the terrain pieces!  Its one of the things that is constantly lacking in most of the miniature games.  having professional looking terrain can bring new life to the board (there are only so many times you can take the pile of physics books before they stop looking like bunker hill!

 

So I would definitely like to see more of this in the future, maybe some bases and buildings as well?  There are so many ways that could be useful.

 

 

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I think those are fair criticisms.  I don't think the late part is as strong as a factor as you do, 10 months while it sucked, in the land of KS's isn't that bad. :) I don't think it was mentioned during the campaign by anyone that I saw, or maybe a couple of times as I am still a bit dazed. 

 

The reshuffling came about as we pulled stuff out, which lowered the needed goals. For people just wanting BSRs you are correct, if you are not playing the game you don't need the latest batch and we will adjust accordingly. We learn, we move on. Thanks for the feedback!

 

We are working on a lot more terrain, with a modular building system in the future.

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5 hours ago, kristof65 said:

#3 - People are Big Stompy Roboted  out.  I know to all you mech fans that seems unlikely, but honestly, as I looked at my haul of CAVs from the first two Kickstarters, I honestly couldn't bring myself to buy hordes more.  Based on how the re-release of the terrain expansion seems to have corresponded with the the totals rising significantly again, I don't think I'm wrong in guessing that was a factor for a large number of people besides me, too.

 

I almost went ala cart on this one, going with only add ons. I'm almost done with painting every Terran CAV from the first KS. It was a huge elephant to eat, even with cheating by going the rattle can route (don't, btw. Seriously, no, does not play well and I knew that going in). Originally I was trying to get them all done by CAV KS2, and that didn't happen. Just looking at the remaining two boxes of unpainted stomp goodness harkens back to stories of people forced to smoke entire packs of cigarettes. I'm worried I won't manage the rest.

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21 hours ago, CAVBOSS said:

I think those are fair criticisms.  I don't think the late part is as strong as a factor as you do, 10 months while it sucked, in the land of KS's isn't that bad. :) I don't think it was mentioned during the campaign by anyone that I saw, or maybe a couple of times as I am still a bit dazed. 

It's about "caution flags" .   A lot of people have flags they look at when deciding to back a KS or not.  They're not the same for everyone, and many people may not even consciously realize they're using them.  For example, here are several of mine:

  • Have I heard of this creator?
  • How many projects has the creator done?
  • How many of those have delivered?
  • How many of those were late, and how long? 
  • What is the creator's reputation?
  • Does there seem to be more offered than the amount raised seems to be able to cover? 
  • Has the creator "compromised" stretch goals so that they're now offering more for less than they were? 
  • Has the creator significantly shuffled up the initial promised stretch goals? 
  • How many people are complaining about the KS, what are they complaining about and how is the creator responding? 

In your case, most of those were solid green flags for me - like for the first one, I've not only heard of you and Talon Games, I've met and talked with you in person twice this year.  But if three or more of those start throwing red or caution flags for me, I'm less likely to back - and if I don't back, I'm probably not even going to tell the creator why.    

And that's what I was looking at in my after action report.  For the majority of the 500+ people who've backed you this time, I'm sure they had a bunch of green flags that easily over rid those caution flags.  But that's not necessarily the case for potential new backers.  How many of them stopped by with no idea who Talon Games is, and saw what I pointed out above, and decided to pass? I'll concede that we really have no way of knowing that, but I fear it was enough to hurt the momentum a little. 

Overall, though, you did far more right than wrong.  I'm nitpicking in my after action report, mostly to make your next KS better.  And your transparency for your decisions, combined with your fans loyalty really helped a lot.  For example, when you pulled the terrain, aircraft and dropship options off the table, a few of us let you know that we didn't care for that. But we let you know once, and then pretty much shut up about it. I don't think any of us wanted to be a negative voice that put potential backers off, but more than that, you explained yourself pretty well. We may not have liked the decision, but we understood it. 

I'm done harping on you about it. ::):   Looking forward, I hope this KS fulfills on time, so that you can get to the next one even sooner.   And I hope that next one is primarily vehicles, aircraft and terrain. 

 

17 hours ago, Pegazus said:

I'm worried I won't manage the rest.

You're not helping yourself by designing and printing your own. :devil: :lol:

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For me, the fact things were pulled (and then stretch goals re-arrange) was a red flag, but I watched, and waited...  A really big red flag (that I'll admit almost had me back out and say nope, not dealing with this) was the second time something was pulled, especially since it happened the next update.  So many times I wanted to say something, but every time I wrote something it came across as seething rage to me, as opposed to what could be a useful comment and so I never actually posted them, as I didn't feel they'd offer anything useful at all.  So I waited some more to see what would happen, since life was intervening with finances anyways. 

 

I was pretty happy to see the terrain come back, and then the aircraft albeit in resin...  But they're back.  Honestly can't remember if I commented repeatedly or not about it, but I hope it was more a case of "darn that sucks" and then leaving it be.   Oh, and doubly so loving the fact the terrain pack has a bunch of awesome little elements. 

 

I say "albeit in resin" since they're less affordable, but at the same time they're out, and I'm hoping to be able to get at least one set, if not two. 

 

I'm still hoping to be able to get things sorted out financially so I can back for everything I want to back for (we'll just say it's a, uhm, few items, lol) though and while we didn't get the buggies, there is still a lot out there, including resin versions of the aircraft! ....and a mention at more vehicles, terrain (modular buildings sound rather interesting), and of course the dropship in a future Kickstarter. 

 

 

I'm also really glad that the Canadian... Distributor...? Will be happening soon, even if it isn't just a "simple" addition to shipping options on the main store.  Flipside though is its shipping from Canada, which means wooohooo buying in Canadian dollars! 

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1 hour ago, kristof65 said:

You're not helping yourself by designing and printing your own. :devil: :lol:

 

No, I’m not. I’m really not. 

 

And im missing one little gun off of one. I can either call him “Lefty”, or build up some replacement.

 

Like a cannon. Or a differnt gun. Maybe a radar array. 

 

Or a drone platform.

 

I ... now ... have to do a drone platform.

 

Rats. 

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1 hour ago, WhiteWulfe said:

Honestly can't remember if I commented repeatedly or not about it, but I hope it was more a case of "darn that sucks" and then leaving it be. 

I don't think you did.  I am pretty sure you and I were the most vocal about it, and I don't recall either of us dragging it out. If we did mention it again, it was in more hopeful terms, as in "I hope that it comes back" rather than beating CAVBOSS up over the decision. 

I'm relatively confident we could have made things far worse for the kickstarter if we had raged about it, and I certainly didn't want that, and I doubt you did either. 

Wait, why am I coming back to this?  It's over and done with, darnit! ::):

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13 hours ago, WhiteWulfe said:

Can't resist...  Hey CAVBOSS, any word on the Canadian webstore? ^_^;;;;

The webstore is ready (as it will be the same talon.games) but our fulfiller is still working on getting everything set up on their end.

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On 10/23/2018 at 3:10 PM, Pegazus said:

 

No, I’m not. I’m really not. 

 

And im missing one little gun off of one. I can either call him “Lefty”, or build up some replacement.

 

Like a cannon. Or a differnt gun. Maybe a radar array. 

 

Or a drone platform.

 

I ... now ... have to do a drone platform.

 

Rats. 

 

And like that, I now have a drone platform arm for one of the Falcons. Guess it’s a falcon Falcon?! Pics behind the spoiler, and plan on taking a group pic of all its brethren tomorrow.

 



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