Savage Coyote 600 Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Howdy ya'll! Have a little Templar vs Templar training action for you at 5k. We played under the CAVCon tournament rules which don't allow for Battlefield Upgrades, Support Packages, Fliers, or Infantry while granting you 3 CP and an Ace Commander. MiniAddict was kind enough to drive up and play, so here's the lists: MiniAddicts Templars Attack Section Centurion (Ace) Crusader 3x Duelists Specialist Section 2x Sovereign III's 2x Spartans 10th Knight Assault Regiment "The Butcher Birds" Attack Section 2x Warhammer's (proxied by modified Enforcers; painted one is the Ace) Warhawk (proxied by a Starhawk V) Claymore (proxied by a Spartan) Attack Section 2 4x Spatha's (proxied by Lion II's) Recon Section 4x Sabre's When I started with all of those, I was only going to run Terrans (as they had just been Kickstarted) and Templars (I was buying old metals from Reaper before they were destroyed.). The biggest problem is the Templars were all over the place in terms of stats and with only the Halbard available in Bones, you couldn't really expand your forces. With the most recent Kickstarter, I decided to start testing all of the new goodies and just proxying my way across the faction. And before you mention it, my list is super weak against fliers and infantry. MAC's can't damage them because of SA: Strike. It's a consideration for later list building! Turn One During this turn, we mostly surge forward after deployment with a few pot-shot attempts, but there was no damage done during this turn. Just the pre-engagment shuffle! Turn Two So this turn, MiniAddict's big attack section moves and shoots, damaging some of my Spatha's and swinging his Crusader out into "the open" with only a stand of trees between it and my CAV's. I screw up and use EST that the Claymore doesn't have to target lock the Crusader and then move up my units and kill it with concentrated fire. I take ownership for that. I screwed up! I also rolled like three crits between the six Heavy MAC's. It was brutal and ugly. My Sabres manage to Jam one of the Spartans (I used three to Jam and one to use an ECM field) but couldn't get the other one. Turn Three The Centurionshows itself right next to the Crusader's charred remains and so, know now knowing I don't have EST on the Claymore, I target lock with my three CAV's and carve out four damage tracks between them. The Spatha's focus on the Spartanthat had been Jammed and kill it in a hail of MAC rounds while taking some damage from the Duelists and that Spartan. My Sabres continue to systematically Jam his Spartans and I succeed with the other one. Also by this turn I'm using my Recon Squad to send the first green card of his that pops up to the back. This usually insures that I get two activations before he can do anything, and at least two turns where I'm allowed to activate all of my units before he's able to play. Turn Four I use the Recon Squad ability and the next drawn card is mine, so my CAV's, with the help of the Claymore's APA2, demolish the Centurion. The Sabres also Jam the remaining Spartan again while the Spatha's plunge into closer range with the Duelists, mauling one. The other two Duelists are sadly undamaged as I've missed or hit and not hit hard enough to damage them. Moving my Claymore away to help the CAV's also robbed the Spathas of support they needed in later turns. Turn Five The main battle is between the Spatha's and Duelists. They trade fire, with the mauled Duelist going down and the Sovereign III on that side suffering a damage point. The other Duelists are still very much alive and clean and inflict more damage to the tanks. The Sovereign III's also land strike points on two of the tanks and damage them. The Sabres continue to advance, providing ECM support to both sides. The Warhawk annihilates the his last Spartan with two critical hits from its Heavy MAC's and two solid hits with the Light Guided Missiles. The game is winding down at this point. Turn Six More of the same. I try to put some damage on the Duelists but even with target locks, the badly damaged Spatha's are unable to inflict any damage, other than killing the Sovereign III on their side. My CAV's and Sabres continue to race up to try to effect the end game, with the vehicle pumping out ECM or moving to more advantageous position. Turn Seven We call it on turn seven as I've lost two of my four Spathas but he's down to two Duelists. My Warhawk moves up far enough to catch a bit of the remaining Sovereign III and cripples it with two heavy MAC hits, one being a critical. Three of my Sabres race over to it and unload, doing three more points of damage to finish it off. Another Spatha died while another managed to hang on at damage track 8. It had been roughly two hours and it was clear that there wasn't really going to be a way for him to crack the Warhammer's armor 9 and once the APA 2 was back into the mix on the Duelists, they were going to be in trouble. After Action Analysis So, MAC's can crack armor like no other, except PBG's on overdrive of course. I got a silly number critical hits with the Heavy MAC's and they really punched through armor. It goes back to the conversation last week about the ability and worth of the Centurion and Duelist. I think both have their uses but in mass, the Duelists struggle against higher armor without Salvo and the Centurion sucks up so many points for a platform that MUST be at closer range to operate optimally. I was able to create a firing line that dispatched the two close range threats and my Spathas were able to occupy the Duelists to keep them out of the fray. This had the side effect of allowing my CAVs to lumber around and probably win the game in the end. Edited October 31, 2018 by Savage Coyote 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
miniaddict 571 Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Such a beat down. Needs some serious re-do Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Savage Coyote 600 Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 There... finally got everything updated. We had internet issues and it cut off most of my text! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWulfe 44138 Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 I was wondering about that cut off text when the post went up initially Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeneki 924 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) Ahhh, it looks like the Duelists were nerfed in the most recent Force Builder update. They had Heavy MACs and EST, and made excellent spotter / snipers as the rest of the squad closed in. Edited November 2, 2018 by Jeneki Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Savage Coyote 600 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 I dunno about "nerfed" as much as "roll changed." Those six piercing light MAC's will take out low armor (five or lower) without breaking a sweat. Armor seven is where I've seen the really tapper off and struggle though (as MiniAddict fields a bunch of them so I have quite a few chances to watch them roll!) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reaper User CAVBOSS 3206 Posted November 5, 2018 Reaper User Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Savage Coyote said: I dunno about "nerfed" as much as "roll changed." Those six piercing light MAC's will take out low armor (five or lower) without breaking a sweat. Armor seven is where I've seen the really tapper off and struggle though (as MiniAddict fields a bunch of them so I have quite a few chances to watch them roll!) Though I find it hard to believe with a +5 to salvo fire you can bust bigger armor on average rolls. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CitizenCane 183 Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 How did you find playing the Warhammers and Sparthas? I was hoping we'd get them unlocked in this KS but my have to settle for Proxying. any revalations about them through playing as far as strategy or uses? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Savage Coyote 600 Posted November 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 14 hours ago, CAVBOSS said: Though I find it hard to believe with a +5 to salvo fire you can bust bigger armor on average rolls. Yeah, I've been saying that to MiniAddict but he had a bad experience using it a couple times. I keep saying it though :D 12 hours ago, CitizenCane said: How did you find playing the Warhammers and Sparthas? I was hoping we'd get them unlocked in this KS but my have to settle for Proxying. any revalations about them through playing as far as strategy or uses? The Warhammer's were brutal. Without APA, they demolished the Crusader with little effort, then the next turn put four or five damage on the Centurion. Once the APA2 swung over their way, they took out the Centurion and were done for the game. I was a little disappointed in the Spatha's first spin as they struggled a little against the Duelists. They killed one and one of the Sovereigns but I wasn't punching through well enough. had I kept the APA2 support with them I think it would have changed, but thats true for anything pulling the trigger I suppose. As Jon mentioned, maybe a little salvo fire would help! By the time I was Salvoing I was already damaged pretty bad and it didn't help much! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeneki 924 Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) I'd have to say that I miss EST more than the Heavy MACs. That ability is just too important in an aggressive strategy where you're pushing forward. On the bright side, salvo fire would explain why the Duelist gets more ammo bins now. Edited November 7, 2018 by Jeneki Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Savage Coyote 600 Posted November 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 9 hours ago, Jeneki said: I'd have to say that I miss EST more than the Heavy MACs. That ability is just too important in an aggressive strategy where you're pushing forward. On the bright side, salvo fire would explain why the Duelist gets more ammo bins now. Yeah, the Crusader now has that "honor" of being the heavy with EST. Of course I kill those ASAP as I don't want to be shot with it's guns! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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