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The clicky menace


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Frank, please get off your high horse.  There wasn't anything wrong with what either of those guys said.  Each of them was making a personal statement that they didn't see how MW:DA, a game that's grounded in simplicity and collectability, would appeal to players who love a game whose entire basis was detail, depth of rules, background and the freedom to choose from literaly hundreds (if not thousands) of 'Mechs to play with.

 

That's an honest opinion, not a sweeping statement as you put it.  In fact, you're the only one I see making any sweeping statements.  You knowing "several hardcord BattleTech players who have enjoyed MW:DA" hardly makes you the end all and be all of truth.  Hell, you couldn't even spell hardcore correctly, but you're right and everyone who doesn't like MW:DA is wrong?  Give me a break!

 

You're not the thought police Frank, so stop trying to act like it.

 

@Frosch and Jeremy - And you two should be ashamed of yourselves.  If you're going to say something, at least make sure its going to be something that you believe and will back up, not just change your opinion when someone tells you you're wrong.  Especially when you're not!

 

In short, grow a backbone. ;)

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I'd love one, yeah.  :P

 

Thing is though, some of the things he said were right.  I have not played MWDA, and I am acting in part out of paranoia.  If you want to look at it as CAV versus MWDA, then it's the WizKids marketing juggernaut against ME.  That'll breed paranoia and defensiveness in anyone.

 

I don't see that as lacking a backbone, I see that as realizing that I'm acting out of paranoia.  I'm trying to not be as extremely knee-jerk anti-MWDA just because I see it as a threat that happens to be mindless gamer-crack.

 

That, and I have this distressing tendancy to be reasonable.  It would be so refreshing JUST ONCE, to be able to only see one side of the issue, and to hammer away at it because I'm RIGHT.  If I were that sort of person, I'd be in politics.

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For me MW:DA has nothing to do with gameplay or BattleTech. I dislike it and refuse to give WK my money for 3 simple reasons.

 

1) Its collectable.

2) I don't like the miniatures. †And yes I've seen them all. †I checked them out at GenCon. †Not only do I think that they're ugly, but they're cheap and gimicky too.

3) WizKids is a company that's more interested in the almighty dollar than in the games themselves. †They want to be the next Games Workshop.

 

Now I'm not an idiot, I know that every company needs to make a profit to stay in business, but the majority of gaming companies do this b/c they enjoy what they do, not because they make a ton of cash. †In fact most gaming company employees don't make much at all.

 

As for the "how do you know you don't like it if you've never tried it" line, that's complete B.S. that should be saved for mothers trying to get their kids to eat vegatables. †I don't need to bungie jump off of a bridge to know that I won't like it. †I don't have to buy/play WH40K to know that I'm not interested in it. †

 

I do know that regardless of how much fun MW:DA could be to play, that won't overcome the things about it that I don't like.

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I'm avoiding MW:DA like the plague for a few reasons:

 

1) when it comes to collectible games I'm addictive as hell.  I have gallon size ziploc bags, PACKED FULL of Mage Knight figs, at least one for each major faction and smaller bags for the minor factions.  And I've NEVER actually PLAYED the game.  So the fewer clicky collectible games for me, the better.  I have been buying Hero Clix, but I've kept the buying to a reasonable level, and I've been playing the game so that's fine.  By the way Hero Clix is a lot of fun and the simplicity of the system really fits the comic book hero genre, but there's still plenty of room for strategy in it.

 

2) Because I have so much Mage Knight, along with my Warhammer armies, my shelf completely packed with Clan War minis, My various remnants of CCG's that I decided to keep after my addictive phase of CCG's wore off, my WH40K armies, my Great Rail Wars armies, my big box of Reaper minis waiting to be painted, my Crimson Skies minis, my shoeboxes of Mage Knight Metals, Flintloque, Chainmail, and other sundry figs waiting to be painted, I'm running low on space.

 

3) I pretty much lost interest in Battletech many years ago when the Clans showed up.  I enjoyed a brief period of playing it again when I ran into a friend who turned out to be a rabid player, but when I moved out to the Midwest, I didn't hook up with any Battletech people.

 

4) Wizkids will be releasing a new Clix game next year that I need to save my time, money, and shelf space for.  So I'm going to pass on MW:DA and instead devote my mecha oriented money time and efforts into CAV, where I can put together a couple of small armies enough for myself and a friend or two to play, and still spend SO MUCH less than I would in the first three weeks of a CMG frenzy...

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The good news about Crimson Skies is that Wesiman said it's de-emphasizing the collectible aspect.  Early reports at Gencon said that you'll be able to go up and buy a pack that has fixed planes in it.  And the planes are cast from the same Ral Partha molds, so could be useable for the regular board game if you ignore the little clicky base.

 

Of course I'll have to own every plane ever made for the Clix version... but I've got a big box full of the metal ones too...

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Frosh for the record I know why you are paranoid about MW DA and its marketing juggernaut... just remember there are two phases to marketing... the first phase when the product is announced and pushed in mags and all that, and my hat is off to WK, they did a wonderful job. The second when it hits the market place.

 

Now these are purely local observations so take them with the extremely large grain of internet salt that they should be taken with.

 

The people that are picking up MW DA fall in two categories:

 

1.- The Hardcore players (our local drones, they will buy anything if it has a Mech and that universe in the cover, and I mean anything... they do need their fix.)

 

2.- Some of our local GW players. They have no problem with the rules emphasis on HtH, since some of them run Blood Angles and Space Wolves... so assault comes naturally.

 

Now in this I did not mention the kids... yeah there is one kid, but that is about it. The reason for that... the players themselves who really do not want to play with the kids. Its not that they are overt about it, but they keep the Banson's Raiders run by the kid off the table if they can.

 

Now if this pattern holds nationwide or in the large markets (aka LA and texas) then MW DA is indeed in trouble already and from what I have been hearing some players have even bought some of thier boosters on sale already. Usually that is not a good thing... yeah great you bought it on sale, but.

 

Moreover I have had the MW DA on the table and the kids don't like it. They themselves have called it gimicky and cheap looking. Granted it is the store owner, so he might be a little more sophisiticated, but then again neither have his friends liked it and they are in the target age. (They do love what I did to that blackhawk thought, they thought that was cool) Hence I am starting to think that maybe, just maybe Jordan missed his mark and the cool factor... which for the record he has not missed with heroclix... my hubby the commics geek... can attest to that.

 

Now I did buy it and test it exensively and the last test was one that one player told me, and shame on me, did not think out of the box. If you take a lance on lance of Mechs, not farmtech, Mechs... it will take just as long to play as a regular game of Tech... to put it midly I was laughing. And yes I did time it, and should take a couple maps and properly do it with the actual Mechs, if I find time.

 

Now this is a general statement folks, yes game companies do thigns for the love of the game, but they all have to pay the bills, so I do not say anything if a company wants to become the next GW, though this usually brings some bad things as well. To put it midly they have done things (WK that is) that they have surrendered the mantle of the bad boys in gaming already and GW does not want it back.  As far as they are concerned, WK can keep it.

 

That said, if any one of us puts down MW DA in public, as in a demo or while playing... as many personal reaons as we might have to do such... the knee jerk reaction from the other side will be, what butt---ls. I must say we deserve it... that is why Frank is on his high horse and I beg of you guys to at the very least say, "I do not know anything about it." Do not put it down, after all if your prospect loves it, whatever you say next will fall on deaf ears.

 

Nadin

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That said, if any one of us puts down MW DA in public, as in a demo or while playing... as many personal reaons as we might have to do such... the knee jerk reaction from the other side will be, what butt---ls. I must say we deserve it... that is why Frank is on his high horse and I beg of you guys to at the very least say, "I do not know anything about it." Do not put it down, after all if your prospect loves it, whatever you say next will fall on deaf ears.

 

I agree with this statement.  If you're demoing a game, or doing similar recruiting attempts, it's always bad form to put down the competition.  Now when you and your friends are sitting around after a game in private let the bashing continue, but I have never taken well to a demo person who thinks they can convince me to try their game by putting down the competition.  What I find more interesting is honest excitement (not spastic fervor, mind you) in the game their pushing.  If I can tell that they really enjoy the game I'm more open to giving it a try.  But it always lowers my opinion of someone if they're pushing a product and trashtalking the competition, even if I'm inclined to agree with them I consider it unprofessional.

 

If I'm demoing a game and people ask me about another game I'll either honestly tell them that I've never played it, or if I have I'll say "It's OK, but what I really like about my game is..."  And then bring forward the positive aspects of the game I'm demoing and just get the other game out of the conversation entirely.

 

Again though, on a forum or in private when not pushing or representing a game... trash away!  :p

 

I think the Clix game have their niche.  And I think that's fine.  When the CCG's came out everyone predicted that was the end of roleplaying, and yet, years later, roleplaying is still going strong.

 

I hope that miniature gamers of today won't treat the clix players like many historical gamers did to young fantasy gamers in the 80's.  I remember the historical guys at the gaming stores would turn their noses up and make disparaging comments at us younguns who played Warhammer (way back in 86 when it was fairly new in the states).  Because of that attitude most of us then had no interest in historical gaming, because of those guys.  Now I hear a lot of the older historical gamers complaining because their numbers are dwindling... Probably because of the lack of younger players.  Fortunately the historical gamers where I live now are for the most part very friendly and open to new players, and many of them also play fantasy and sci-fi stuff.  But whenever I mention historical games to most of my friends back east they always joke about the grumpy old men...  

 

Let's not be grumpy old men (or women) to the clix players.  Because one day their going to be interested in trying other types of games.  They may be looking for a more complex and realistic system, or more advanced strategy and tactics out of their rulesets... Or getting into painting their own lead minis.  And we'll keep our favorite games going strong.

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All of what he said about the historical gamers and how they treated the young guns badly and where that side of the hobby is. I might add the CCG players which we all treated like you know what... and they will not try anything outside their decks, not that I can blame them!

 

That said, there is only one point that I take exception to... unless we are truly playing a simulation... 'Mech, by SPI, or Harpoon, or some of the others, just keep reality out of my gaming...

 

:p

 

Nadin

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very interesting conversation guys. I "skimmed" through most of it. Let's see if I got this straight. On dies doesn't like the "clicky" game, one side supports CAV and one side is in the middle playing moderator, right? Now for someone who doesn't play the game (yet, I am going to watch the demo on Friday night in Omaha) I may be wwwwaayyyyy off here, but that's o.k. I am used to it and can take the heat. Besides I might learn a bit about this "CAV" game that has peaked my curiosity. Click games stike me a "fad" games. The come on like a rocket and fizzle to a sparkler. Some will stay with it, but it will eventually fade. But they will bring in new "blood" to the various "other" battletech games. So, I don't see them as a threat. One should understand them though, so you can point out the pros and cons to playing them in comparrison to your fav. game, in this instant CAV. (know thy enemy, sort to speak) Quality will always win over quantity.

 Now, am I totally off or somewhere in the ballpark with my musings?

Lady Tam

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Lady Tam, I think you're fairly close to it, except for one thing.  It has been my experience that superior marketing wins out over quality 8 times out of ten.

 

Given the fact that this is a Reaper board, there are going to be more people supporting CAV than elswhere.  I think the opinions range:

-hating clicky and refusing to learn

-Disliking clicky, not going to play, but doing the minimum of effort to make a reasonably intelligent decision (don't like gameplay, don't like the minis, etc)

-Having done exhaustive research (Nadin) and having concluded it's a decent game.

 

I feel like I'm missing something here.  I hope I fall into "having made an effort to form a reasonable opinion", but I could well be in the paranoid camp as well.

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