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The clicky menace


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Frosh I had to for work, and them Joust tanks are wonderful Lances (until they come out with the Lance, then they will become something else),They are also amazingly good Heavy Gear tanks.


And yes marketing helps but as I said, in a previous post, also who buys into the game influences how well it does locally... and at least that the local level it ain't doing that well. When gamers get it, any game, they will do fine... when fanatics get them... they scare normal people away.


Personally if I need to play DA to attract blood to CAV, am willing to "stoop that low." Hell I have done it with Magic as it were.  I do own a deck... has not been updated in years, but I do own one... the neighborhood kids usually walk all over me... but I am playing their game, so they develop an interest in my games.


Now DA is a descent game but will grow stale soon enough for two reasons:


No pilot advancement, and that WAS a staple of tech for many years.


No Construction Rules.


Also many of the people who USED to play tech and came back to the fold as it were, now that they are learning the back story are having second thoughts and have had their image of the Tech universe ruined... so that alone does not bode well at least for the older players. Yeah yesterday after the huge Psyro versus Merchs CAV game we were talking about the back story and one of the guys, he was VERY disapointed with the back story, as much as most of us who have been following it even closer...


So yes marketing helps, but also 20 years of game history are working against it in a wonderful way that just is amazing to me.


Look on the bright side, will pick up some more cheap tanks for my games of CAV... ah construction rules I love them!





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*Looks for a horse....*


Nope, didn't think I had any kind of horse around here. Guess the internet is giving ppl hallucinations again :o)


In defense of what I've said (not that I feel I need to defend my point - unless I want them to get through), I was merely pointing out that not knowing anything about a subject and then speaking about it, esp if you're pretending to know what you're talking about, is insulting to me - it's like lying and I don't tolerate that. When asked I just say "I've seen the minis and I like them, I've scanned the rules and didn't see anything to put me off but I haven't had time to play it". That's the truth and I'm not pretending to know something I don't.


I can see how paranoia could make people react without thinking, and I can see how people might change their minds. Afterall, that's the point to debating an issue - to pursuade the other side to see your point and perhaps even change their own opinions. So Jer and Frosch conceded the point - nothing to do with backbone and frankly I'd be insulted with the implication if it were directed at me.


Chrome, I'll have to disagree with you on the 'try it, you may like it' thing. I am an imaginative person, but I'm realistic enough to know that even I cannot anticipate everything - hell that's the point of trying things. I may go into something thinking I won't like it, but I'm man enough to acknowledge that I may be wrong - and it works the other way around, I may think I'll love something and end up detesting it. To act any other way, in my opinion, would be to close my mind to what life has to offer - and to me that's another heinous crime.


Another part of this is my thirst for information. I won't make any comment on something until I know something about it (least I try not too). Originally I thought all GW games sucked, but I tried 40k and, while it wasn't astoudning it did make me want to learn a little more about the universe (just as happened with CAV and BattleTech originaly). And one fantasy game finally broke through my defenses - Warhammmer Fantasy actually appealed to me (through one army) through it's fluff and background. I guess it's just different ways of making a decision.


Those who object to the collectibility of MW:DA, I agree completely - that's why I haven't bought any of it (that and the space and money things).


Frosch, I'd actually say that your third category should, in my opinion, be 'having done exhaustive, or nearly, research to form an opinion' because not everyone who's spent the time and energy has concluded it's a decent game (in some respects) :o)


Lady Tam, I agree with you there, about the 'know your enemy' sentiment. I've found it a good rule to live by :o)

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Also many of the people who USED to play tech and came back to the fold as it were, now that they are learning the back story are having second thoughts and have had their image of the Tech universe ruined... so that alone does not bode well at least for the older players. Yeah yesterday after the huge Psyro versus Merchs CAV game we were talking about the back story and one of the guys, he was VERY disapointed with the back story, as much as most of us who have been following it even closer...

Well said Nadin.


I'm one of those people who used to play BattleTech (still do from time to time) and I had the oportunity to try MW and wasn't really "moved" by it. Oh it's fun I admit but it's not a game I would invest in, money or time wise.

While the new storyline Mr. Stackpole and company created isn't ruining the universe for me it certainly is dull, a return to the pre 3025 era where technology is disapearing or rare isn't very apealing to me. We've been there already and frankly it was better the first time.


I agree with you on the lack of Pilot advancement, the rare-collectible-can-you-catch'em-all gimick and especially on the no construction rules.


Sorry if this was a bit out of topic, I'm going back in lurker mode now.

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When? When Magic struck it rich & won their lawsuit against TSR growing WOTC from a few geeky, creative, artist types to a game empire rapidly taken over by professional marketers (after it was abandoned by the geeky types - albeit for a lot of money).


So, you really did have a few people get rich quick. Everybody else said "I didn't know you can do that with these simple/stupid kids games! Let's make another one that costs a lot where you have to collect every one! That'll make us rich too!"




what a waste of human spirit & potential...

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There's such a thing as too late-it's over. I think that counts for the collectible wave. Also, not all things will work that way. Magic was great- I've played a few times and it's fascinating. Pokemon was of course aimed at 8 yr olds, a much bigger market. But a CCG with miniatures? I hate the rewriting of Warhammer X every couple years, let alone getting a random bloody miniature.
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I dunno if it's over yet or not.  I see the FLGS doing a very steady, fairly high-volume business with HeroClix, and a little less with MW:DA.  I understand that the bottom dropped out of the Pokemon market in a bit less than a week, and maybe it'll happen with the clicky stuff, but I don't see it going away that quickly.
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Well heroclix has that geeky factor, as in the comic geek factor. Now as to MWDA, I think they wholy missed it. They changed how the Mechs look (Taht centurion is fascinating in the ammount of ammo traps it has, and the Atlas went into the Realm of Chaos). But from a retailer point of view, WK is not that bad to work with, if you can find their volunteers that is.
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The sculptor actually got creative. I personally like that sculp... even if it is not quite a... Spider... And I do have some from the testing of the rules... I use them as Psyros, but I actually do like them... one day when I have painted my metal, I might actually remove them from their base and paint them.


I will be honest, the place they created is very nice, and amusing and interesting and would be a great place to go romp around if.... yes there are always ifs... there were not 20 years of game history, or actually very close to 20 years of history...


In some ways it feels like they rewrote the history, as is their right as the IP owners... but it is my right not to buy it... and for those who claim it is because we cannot adapt, booha... I can adapt, but I also like good story telling. I am particular about that, don't know why.


As always there is more to all stories... still, I know that they just may get new gamers into gaming, due to their marketing machine. Fine, I have no problem with that. Hell I wish they do... then I can intro some of those players to other areas of gaming, and I intend to do it with lots of honey and well painted minis... gaming is not one game... and there is far more out there than just this so called menace. So yes, WK go for it... recruit them... I really want you to get little Johnny to the game store... then I can intro little Johnny to CAV and other games...


But if you think it is a menace... then it clearly is one and you will react to it that way. As is, when I see people looking at Tech, I tend to aproach them and offer to show them CAV... and yes, it takes some effort NOT to react when they tell me that CAV is a knock off from Tech... it takes far more of an effort when they put down other games... then I have to remember back to the days when Outriders did that with 40K, and how much of a joke they became.


Every once in a while I have a player going sure, show me. And as I show them CAV and intro them to this other universe, most shake their heads and go back to what is familiar, and that folks is normal. Others read about this new time line and come back, since CAV is that new, and they can get on the ground floor... yet there are others who walk out of the store, never to come back, because of the changes to Tech... and others who play Tech and will continue to play Tech and I wish them the best. Of course there are the young kids going cool! And in some ways they do not have preconceptions of what a Mecha game is suposed to look like. I will teach to anybody who wants to learn.


Remember folks, all games have a right to compete in the marketplace and games are about fun. When a game stops being fun, for whatever reason (I have mine for Tech) walk away, and look for a game that can be fun.


Also remember, slowly we are reaching critical mass with CAV... and if we, the AOs, and fans of CAV do this in a very profesional way and just plain out have fun when playing OUR game... that is the best PR you can do at your local store... in the end games are made or broken at the local level and at the level of local gaming...


There are very few games that are fully portable from one area of the country to another, and nope that is not Tech... or even MW DA, they are the GW games for minis, and DnD for RPGs... nope it is not Tech... and I wish CAV can find itself in that same situation as GW... but GW was not there back in the day... now they have the marketing machine but they did not back in the day. So yes I do have hope, but I am an eternal optimist I guess.



Nadin Brzezinski

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I think that Reaper has the capability and the potential to become even greater than GW.  Their people are top-notch, they have a wide fan base that respects their quality, and they have extensive in-roads to the neglected markets that GW has ignored or steam-rolled out of business.


I think they're on the verge of something great.  Especially now that everything's on schedule.



John Bear Ross


BTW, I'm not speaking as a company rep, just a fan.

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5.- I don't care what they say, but Mr Suitcase could field a better army any time than the 13 year old. Yesterday when I unloaded a good percentage of it, (making my money back) I could see it. Kid wants one unique but he cannot afford it, while the adults were grabbing them right and left.


yeah that's a Big turnoff in my opinion (magic the gathering anyone?) everytime I run a demo I see these kids tapping up a vein trying to get the ONE figure theyre looking for.. and without fail I have one ask me how much this fig or that fig costs and I tell him retail price.. and without fail they balk at how much ONE figure costs... then I point out one of thier bigboys they have out and ask him how many boxes it took to get that one.. then I do the math for him and he blinks and usually says he never realized how much it cost him...

simply amazing.


my 2 cents

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