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Kickstarter failures and moral/financial choices.


odinsgrandson
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2 hours ago, Cyradis said:

 

I actually can see why that may happen. I think a lot of people don't read the comments section on Kickstarters. For simple ones, and a few reliable ones, I haven't bothered. I only got on the Bones IV comments after some instigators from these forums pointed me to it. I've backed some Slugfest Games stuff, never looked at the comments. I don't think I did for the Dark Sword kickstarter, or some pins, or for art/comic PDFs from decent sources. I hit the comments if I have a question about it that I didn't think was addressed, or if I have something specific to add or suggest. That doesn't always happen. 

 

I used to not look at the comments either. But we've been bit enough that I've started making a point of checking comments, particularly if something about the thing feels sketchy (sculpts being very similar to IPs I recognize, or only 3d renders/art for previews, that kind of thing trips my bullpies alarm).

 

When it isn't minis it's harder. The Throne of Night debacle was /supposed/ to be good, we had no reason to expect trouble. Dude was doing the thing, there was writing, the artist was churning out art … and then, BANG. Silence. Nothin'. Dude stops doing conventions, even. Still owes a lot of people the rest of two APs, and probably I'm not the only one he stiffed on a t-shirt.

 

So, it's not a bad idea to check comments... but there isn't always a way to be sure you're not going to get taken. :/

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I haven't yet been burned, but I have had the advice of folks here. Minis based stuff I tend to talk about here anyway, so comments are less necessary. Nowadays I tend to peek in the comments briefly at least, and certainly if things look sketchy. 

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I tend to only stick to the names I know, Reaper, Mantic, CMON, Monolith, Battle Systems....if there is anything else, then I come here first (to be honest here is where I hear about the KS in the first place)

 

If Reaper forumites don't know then it's not worth backing.

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So far I've learned to stay the elf out of movie and PC/console games productions. 

 

The 'short movie' Cowboys & Engines turned into wht the creator calls an 'extended pitch', just a bunch of scenes that doesn't even tell a story, but was supposed to be used to pitch it as a TV series...    

 

One game was a 'dating sim' called 'Kendo Crush'... Instead of Kendo, the game changed to giant robot fighting. 

All the games have been years late if they ever showed up... 

 

A big clue for these types of project is 'have they ever made something of a similar scale before'. 

No. 

Quite a few beginning programmers seems to think that just because they can put together some graphics and get them to move around the screen they're 'nearly there', when in reality they're not even started. 

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Another clue in regards to computer game Kickstarters is when the developer is asked one question, but instead answers a completely different question - with Pathfinder Online being a prime example 'How good is this game going to be for solo play?' was answered with 'I think you are asking how easy is it to form a group....'

 

No, Ryan,, the question was 'How good is this game going to be for solo play?' - and your answer just made me drop out of the Kickstarter, congratulations. There are people that want. To. Play. A. Solo. Game.

 

*EDIT* Even if the answer is 'This game is not really designed for solo play' then answer the danged question, not a completely different question.

 

It's too bad, there were elements that sounded really nice - but when you get dodgy answers from the developer - bale out!

 

The Auld Grump - know at least three people that ditched the KS at that exact point in time.

Edited by TheAuldGrump
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I backed one game - Pillars of Eternity. It was actually everything that it promised to be, but it wasn't as fun as I was hoping for. Perhaps my tastes in games changed and I didn't realize it. I think that's the only computer game I've backed though. It was successful enough to do a sequel though. 

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3 hours ago, Cyradis said:

I backed one game - Pillars of Eternity. It was actually everything that it promised to be, but it wasn't as fun as I was hoping for. Perhaps my tastes in games changed and I didn't realize it. I think that's the only computer game I've backed though. It was successful enough to do a sequel though. 

After backing about 4 PC games, I learned that I wasn’t really interested in early access or seeing how the game was made. I just wanted to play a fun game. So the extra stuff I got from seeing the game being made was of little to no value to me and I’m a patient gamer, so am happy to wait a couple of years before the price drops on a game, so can get the game for cheaper than Kickstarter prices, albeit several years later.

 

So I don’t back Kickstarter computer games anymore either.

4 hours ago, TheAuldGrump said:

Another clue in regards to computer game Kickstarters is when the developer is asked one question, but instead answers a completely different question - with Pathfinder Online being a prime example 'How good is this game going to be for solo play?' was answered with 'I think you are asking how easy is it to form a group....'

 

No, Ryan,, the question was 'How good is this game going to be for solo play?' - and your answer just made me drop out of the Kickstarter, congratulations. There are people that want. To. Play. A. Solo. Game.

 

*EDIT* Even if the answer is 'This game is not really designed for solo play' then answer the danged question, not a completely different question.

 

It's too bad, there were elements that sounded really nice - but when you get dodgy answers from the developer - bale out!

 

The Auld Grump - know at least three people that ditched the KS at that exact point in time.

I actually wonder how many people that backed the Pathfinder Online Kickstarter were actually interested in the game and how many just wanted the cheap PDF mega-adventure that was part of the campaign. I know I considered backing it just for the adventure, even though I had zero interest in the game itself.

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Speaking of software Kickstarters...  All I have to do is look at how zealous fans of a certain space game are, despite it not having released yet, let alone how the single player was supposed to be out back in 2014, and then saw delay after delay.... And that pretty much gets me to look at other things.

 

Some have been successful, like Elite:Dangerous, but you have to be a very specific type of gamer for that (I got into it several months after it went live, and have enjoyed my time in it). 

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> Another clue in regards to computer game Kickstarters is when the developer is asked one question, but instead answers a completely different question

> > Another clue in regards to game Kickstarters is when the developer is asked one question, but instead answers a completely different question

> > > Another clue in regards to Kickstarters is when the developer is asked one question, but instead answers a completely different question

 

:lol:

 

13 hours ago, John Fiala said:

Yeah, this surprises me with the Starfinder miniature kickstarter that Ninja Division ran.  Lots of folks took $1 pledges so they could warn people in the comments, and the project still funded $457K.  And now people are really upset at finding out that the people warning them were right, and they're posting to Paizo's forum about how the failure of this is turning them off of Starfinder as a game, and Paizo to boot.  Paizo's really got egg on their face with their reassurances to their fans that this kickstarter would deliver.

 

A food and his money are still parted.

Be careful with whom you sleep with.

It's easier to point fingers than have a good look in the mirror. -_-

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The only movie kickstarter I've ever backed was for Dwarves of Demrel, and... I have not regretted that. I'm not sure I'd back another, but .. that one? That was pretty cool. Finally got the hardcopy, too. I'm overall pretty happy with it.

 

 .. PFO was one of the ones I wish I had read the KS comments on. Might have saved me some pain. And the forums (not here, Paizo's) were no damn help; I voiced my concerns and got basically told to suck it up. Right. Yes. *censored* that. *grumble*

At least the modules are sorta useful. ;p

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So far *cross fingers* only got burned by relic knights 2.0 and I admit I didn't do enough research. Probably could have been avoided just by seeing how many open projects they still had with little evidence for actual production. I have even backed a few where ppl were very cautious and they still turned out fine. Also pretty sure the comment section was what prevented Overturn Rising Sand to fund and ultimately cost ppl money for no delivery.

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18 hours ago, Glamberry said:

So far *cross fingers* only got burned by relic knights 2.0 and I admit I didn't do enough research. Probably could have been avoided just by seeing how many open projects they still had with little evidence for actual production. I have even backed a few where ppl were very cautious and they still turned out fine. Also pretty sure the comment section was what prevented Overturn Rising Sand to fund and ultimately cost ppl money for no delivery.

But it didn’t fail to fund. The target goal was just at a level that was way too low to do what they were promising.

 

Plus there was the whole plagiarism thing, which got their Kickstarter suspended.

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Yeah, if Overturn Rising Sands hadn't plagiarized the rulebook OR if CMON hadn't filed a complaint with Kickstarter, Overturn would have gotten away with it.

 

 

 

I get the impression that video games fail much more often than board games.  I get the feeling that the Kickstarter platform makes it really easy for a game designer to turn into Peter Molyneux.

For those of you who the development of Fable.  Peter Molyneux loves to talk about the game he's developing, and about how fantastic everything is.  It is clear that he sometimes spit balls with the press before asking his studio how viable some of his concepts are.

 

So each Fable game was going to have a world that ages with the character- people would all get older, trees would grow taller, seasons would change, the NPCs were supposed to have fleshed out lives that made them feel authentic, the economy was supposed to react to the player's serial killings... the list of crazy things just goes on and on.

Ultimately, Peter would talk to the press about how cool these ideas were, and maybe even start work on them before scrapping the concepts because they cost ten times what he was expecting.

But with Kickstarter, if you've made those promises and realize that you don't have the money, you don't have a whole lot of options.  I think that the best success story is Shovel Knight.  They released the base game, and started working on the promised extra content as DLC.  Shovel Knight is a massive success at retail, and that's allowed them to pay for the extras (after the first release, they've been quite open about how they cost more than the stretch goals).

*by the way, I definitely recommend Shovel Knight and all of the alternate character campaigns.  That game is a blast.

Edited by odinsgrandson
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