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Scalecolor Artist Scale75

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Given the shipping costs, that the US Distributor normally comes to ReaperCon (and is a great guy), and the lack of neutral 3rd party reviews, I’m happy to wait until ReaperCon or Adepticon 2020 to buy some.  It’s not like I need new paints.  ::D:

 

The only unique shades that I see are the skin tones.

 

Ron

Edited by vutpakdi
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Decided to cancel my pledge: their expectation for this KS  was around 75k, reached in just one night, they waited till the afternoon to add new SG, jumped straight to 200k and raised each step to 25k, adding the same old s*it pdf, bottle opener and 10% discount on their website, I take it like an ungrateful, greedy, response to their customers. 
Don't take me wrong, SG are just freebies so I do not expect minis or paints or brushes etc, but at least they could have put a discount on the shipping or something physical related to the hobby.
In the end, in just one day they found 700% 
 

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I did the same. Jumped on it and then pretty quickly had second thoughts, shipping costs are very high for me, I don’t like the tubes, and it seemed like a pretty expensive way to try out these paints so I canceled.

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9 hours ago, Cicciopiu said:

Decided to cancel my pledge: their expectation for this KS  was around 75k, reached in just one night, they waited till the afternoon to add new SG, jumped straight to 200k and raised each step to 25k, adding the same old s*it pdf, bottle opener and 10% discount on their website, I take it like an ungrateful, greedy, response to their customers. 
Don't take me wrong, SG are just freebies so I do not expect minis or paints or brushes etc, but at least they could have put a discount on the shipping or something physical related to the hobby.
In the end, in just one day they found 700% 
 

 

I'm not in on this one, since I don't find myself going "ooh must have" for that price. The stretch goals are pretty unimpressive, considering the project. I usually defend stuff like the knick-knacks too. I like the bottle opener and stickers. But geez, this is PDF heavy. The people this paint is aimed at tend to be experienced painters who probably are going "eh" at the guides. I like guides for sure, but that isn't a big allure either. Shipping would have made a big difference for a lot of people, I suspect. The real deal-sweetening isn't really on the table. 

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9 hours ago, Cyradis said:

 

I'm not in on this one, since I don't find myself going "ooh must have" for that price. The stretch goals are pretty unimpressive, considering the project. I usually defend stuff like the knick-knacks too. I like the bottle opener and stickers. But geez, this is PDF heavy. The people this paint is aimed at tend to be experienced painters who probably are going "eh" at the guides. I like guides for sure, but that isn't a big allure either. Shipping would have made a big difference for a lot of people, I suspect. The real deal-sweetening isn't really on the table. 

I don't actually think that this paint is aimed at experienced painters any more than the Artis Opus brushes kickstarter was. I think it's more aimed at less experienced painters who have never used artist paints before and think that they will receive an instant level up from them. Please don't misunderstand me, I think that there are valid reasons to give these paints a try that are not that, but I do think that's the aim and I think that's the motivation behind a lot of the people pledging, as was the case with the Artis Opus brushes. That being said, now that the Artis Opus brushes are available at retail, it does appear that they turned out to be good, albeit somewhat expensive, brushes. So I wouldn't argue with someone wanting to try them out so long as their expectations are that they will be nice brushes and not that they will instantly turn them into Angel Giraldez. In the same vein, I wouldn't argue with someone wanting to try these paints out, as Scale75 makes good paints and I doubt that these would not be good paints, but I think that the same expectations apply.

 

Even more importantly, as I said previously, I would really encourage people to pick up less expensive artists paints in the meantime and give them a try first. I suspect that a lot of these Scale75 artist paints are going to get tried once, most people will not want to deal with the learning curve of using artists paints and will remember why they liked pre-thinned acrylic paints in dropper bottles in the first place, and most of them will get shoved into a drawer never to see the light of day again. Artists paints are simply not going to be right for everyone.

 

The positive thing that I've heard is that the Scale75 artist paints are matte, whereas most artist paints run more on the satin to glossy side, which has always been one of the downsides to using artist paints for miniature painting purposes. That is also why I would recommend ordering the Jo Sonja artist paints from Blick, as a specific toe dip into the pool of artist paints because they are also more matte than your typical Liquitex, for instance.

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I would much rather have more of tgeir existing paints!  I am still trying to learn them and dont need to throw more on top of that!

 

Also I recently bought some oil paints to use as washes and just opening a couple small tubes to just check them out and I had paint EVERYWHERE!  I am not a fan of tubes.  

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Miniature Monthly just did a review of these, and generally seemed to enjoy the paints. She was comparing them to artist acrylics a lot, and to the new Kimera line, with a lot of Reaper-paint praise. If anything, the review made me want to try the Kimera paints and then these ones. The idea of tubes doesn't bother me with these at all. Honestly, the lack of a narrow tip seems like a nice way to avoid clogs. 

I still want to try Scale Color though (I have Fantasy & Games from them). 

There are good reasons to get these new paints, but there are also good reasons to wait - like spending money on minis, and using the paint that I have right now. At least until the itch strikes for more paint. 

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I tried the Kimera paints while visiting the awesome Wren this past weekend. I liked them. I also like the acrylic gouache from liquitex she has as well.  They both mix well and are matte.  The consistency is similar to the golden fluid acrylics, less thick than heavy body paint. I just ordered some atelier cadmiums I'm going to try next week, since they are actually the cadmium pigment and I'd like to try them out.  I think what I might do with the scalecolor ones is pick up a few from reapercon if they bring them, so I can play with them. If not this year than next. Or maybe pick a single set to play with through the kickstarter.

 

One thing I've learned in mixing paint, is that it's really nice to have a few key secondary colors.  For those staying in the kickstarter, trust me when I say you can mix most things- especially skin colors from primaries; but what's really hard to get are high chroma purples and greens.  If you've ever played with mixing, those will be the shades you'll struggle to replicate. I've not had as much trouble with oranges as the other two secondaries.

 

If I were choosing by number, I'd get: 23,24,25, 30, 32, 34 ... and 19,20 because I can never get enough ochers, though that's just me and my obsession with making yellow more friendly.  Then if you wanted to mix almost all the others, pick 3,4,5. Rather than going with the plain black and white to round mixing off, I'd probably go with 41 and 43, but I already have plenty of titanium white- it's a very cold white, and their pastel white reminds me of lead white, which we don't have our current painting era. As a rule I don't like plain black and white as they tend to look flat, so if you get 1,2 then make sure you add a hint of something else to them while painting.

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Thanks for the artist reference Corporea.  I'm going to keep your color reference for when I want to try them somewhere down the line when I can get them more local perhaps.  I am eager to see some of these colors on a model to really know how they do look (especially someone painting with them right in a video).  But I still think Kimera would be the way I go if I want to branch out to something like this.

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I find these and the Kimera Kolor which advertise themselves using the word "pigment" to be marketing BS since they don't tell us the actual pigment codes.
A mixture of linseed/walnut/sufflower/sunflower/poppy oil (, casein,  gun arabic or acrylic medium) and the dirt from my backyard is a pure pigment paint. I would just need to test the chemical composition of the dirt and depending on the elements it has the pigment code would be different (that is what umbers, ochres and siennas are). Furthermore, a mixed paint of hansa yellow light (PY 3) and Phthalo Blue Green Shad (PB 15:3 ) is still no less pure pigment than pure hansa yellow light, insead it behaves worse in mixes. Some artist and professional grade paint companies use the same marketing strategies, but they at least have the decency to tell us most of the pigments (exceptions with specialty mixtures).

 

To me Scalecolor "Artist" and Kimera Kolor are worse than the josonja that somebody recomended, since josonja acrylic colours have the pigment information written on the tube. So far I was unable to find any of said vital information on the Scalecolor Artist or Kimera Kolor, they don't even tell us if the colour is a single pigment or a mixture (which is one of the most important things when it comes to mixing paint). The other problem with the new paint lines is that they don't provide us with lightfastness information.
 

Both Kimera and Scale seem to advertise themselves as "artist grade"  while being hobby or the worse quality student paints. The pigments do seem more finelly ground but too much information is missing and I see no point buying them over Golden, Liquitex, Winsor & Newton, Mattise and Atelier Interactive; which all provide pigment information and are available in multiple forms (heavy body, soft body, liquid, high flow).

 

The opaque nature of the Scalecolor "Artist" paints makes me belive that they are either have extenders such as Lithopone or have titanium white added to the reds, magentas and yellows (the opaque reds and yellows are cadmiums or Mars colours, with Mars being pretty earthy.) I don't believe that Scalecolor uses the toxic cadmiums  (the toxicity of modern high quality cadmium pigments can be argued against), therefore that leaves napthols, anthraquinone, lakes and pyrroles.  Most are transparent or semi transparent and those that are not have terrible lightfastness or are more expensive and toxic than cadmiums. Furthermore for the magenta and purple colours the artist world uses PR122 (has an opaque version) or PV19 both of which are generally transparent, all other versions of magenta (PR202 may work but it seems to me to be a different shade) and that shade of violet have poor lightfastness or are too expensive.

 

This result in me believing that Scalecolor uses either extenders/fillers, inferior pigments or highligh expensive pigments to achieve the opaque qualities they advertise.

 

If you want to see some more fun pigments search: The Color of Art Pigment Database. If you want to learn more about pigments and colour mixing go to the Colour Mixing and/or Technical Forums on wetcanvas. 

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It would be helpful if paint manufacturers were required to label paints with pigment information and ingredients. I am not sure we will see that happen unless there is a concerted push for it (recalling the food industry pushback against being required  to list ingredients for things we actually put in our bodies).

 

One of the reasons I have been willing to try the new Liquitex Acrylic Gouaches is they do list pigments, albeit only on the jars themselves. Further ingredients are not listed. i suspect some of the matting agents used also increase opacity,.

 

 

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2 hours ago, DragonWyrm said:

I find these and the Kimera Kolor which advertise themselves using the word "pigment" to be marketing BS since they don't tell us the actual pigment codes.

Kimera Kolors do, in fact, list the pigment codes directly on the bottle. 

The Red is PR170, Pthalo Green is PG7, Cold Yellow is PY151, Violet is PV23, Orange is PO34,  Magenta is PR122, Yellow Ochre is PY42, Warm Yellow is PY83, Red Oxide is PR130, Pthalo Blu Red Shade is PB15.2, Pthalo Blu Green Shade is PB15.4, The White is PW6, and Carbon Black is PBK7.

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1 hour ago, Guindyloo said:

Kimera Kolors do, in fact, list the pigment codes directly on the bottle. 

The Red is PR170, Pthalo Green is PG7, Cold Yellow is PY151, Violet is PV23, Orange is PO34,  Magenta is PR122, Yellow Ochre is PY42, Warm Yellow is PY83, Red Oxide is PR130, Pthalo Blu Red Shade is PB15.2, Pthalo Blu Green Shade is PB15.4, The White is PW6, and Carbon Black is PBK7.

 

 

Well that is nice to know, I couldn't find this informatino on their website so I do hope they add it in the future or if its there, make it easier to find.
But PR130 doesn't seem to be a pigment that is used in paints, based on the name I will assume that you/they meant to write PR102 which is natural red iron oxide or PR101 which is sythetic red iron oxide.

 

Now the interesting colours.

PR170: is a napthol which lightfastness is variable, but generally is a II ASTM (not the best but still suitable for artistic use)
PO34: Pyrazolone Orange, pretty bad lightfastnes from what I could find, thought its not rate by ASTM. BWS (trans.) 5-6; 4-5  and (opaque) 6-7; 5-6. {BWS 8;8;8 is the best}
PB15.2: Phthalocyanine Blue, strong colour use in moderation when mixing with other colours that are not pthalo. I ASTM (the best lightfastness).    Seems to be a rarer Pthalo blue variation.

The only colour that I disagree with is the orange chosen, all the other colours are nice with lightfastness II to I ASTM. 

 

Now for personal preferences:

I am surprised they included two pthalo blues, if I was buying only from them I would have prefered the redder one to be exchanged for utramarine blue or indathrone blue. Thought since I have access to other paint manufacturers it is really nice that they used the less common pthalo.
I don't like napthol reds and would have prefered a cadmium (ohh the toxicity) or pyrrole, but I understand given the cost of said pigments. 

As a side note you can mix yourself a red by combining yellow with magenta.
Mixing a turquise is easy Pthalo Green (Blue Shade) + Pthalo Blue (Green shade).
 

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I've noticed on average miniatures paint blues seem to be more based on Phthalo Blue rather than on Ultamarine Blue, possibly because Ultramarine goes grainy in washes and that really shows on a small scale.

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