A good Book

[scowling]

There are very few fantasy series that are any good. If, as Sturgeon's Law suggests, 90% of anything is crud, it is truer of fantasy novels than of anything else.

 

Good Stuff:

 

George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" series was highly recommended to me, so I tried the first book -- and was enthralled. Perhaps the best characterization ever in a fantasy novel, much less a fantasy series. I devoured all three available books in a week. The current books are "A Game of Thrones", "A Clash of Kings" and "A Storm of Swords". Get 'em. The next book, "A Feast for Crows", may be released next March.

 

Joel Rosenberg's "Guardians of the Flame" series starts with a silly premise: a group of fantasy role-players are transported to their fantasy world by their gamemaster and find themselves in their characters' bodies. Sounds dumb, right? Nuh-uh. The first five books in the series are incredible: surprising, challenging, with well-drawn characters. Rosenberg is also not afraid to kill his characters, a trait that Martin also shares.

 

Roger Zelazny's "Chronicles of Amber". There are two series of five books each. While many think that the second series should be ignored, I disagree. The books are very short, and the entirety of the ten novels is not much longer than a single one of Martin's novels above. Intricate plots, with the stories told from the point of view of an unreliable narrator, set in a world where our Earth is only a shadow -- one shadow of an infinite number of shadows -- of the true realm of Amber.

 

Elizabeth Moon's "The Deed of Paksenarrion". Just good stuff. One of the few genre novels written by a woman that I've enjoyed (Connie Willis' SF novels are also great, as are Nancy Kress' and Octavia Butler's -- read work by these four authors if you want genre fiction with a woman's touch; it will alleviate any bad karma you may have accumulated by reading Cherryh, Lackey, McCaffrey, Ore, Rusch, Anne Rice, Tepper, or Hamilton).

 

It wouldn't be a Scowling Post if I didn't post some criticisms:

 

1. All game-related fiction is crap. All of it, without exception. All the D&D novels, all the Clan War novels, all the Vampire novels, and every short story in every RPG sourcebook ever written: all crap. Not a single game-related story would survive two minutes in a workshop of real writers. Not a single game-related story would survive the "two page" test if the game-related content was stripped from the work and it was submitted to a mainstream publisher. Not one.

 

2. Robert Jordan is a hack. His characters are wooden and his plots derivative. Further, he commits the unforgivable crime of giving his characters names with apo'strophe's rand'om'ly thrown thr'oug'hout -- the surest sign of hackdom. Plus, he is in failing health and will die before he finishes the Wheel of Time series. Don't hold your breath for a conclusion.

 

3. Piers Anthony is the uber-hack. There are Amiga Computer programs that write better fiction than he.

[Catlion]

Hm... let's see...

 

The Amtrak Wars by Patrick Tilley (6 Volumes), postapocalyptic fantasy

[gwangi32]

I picked up the first two books of James Clemens THE BANNED AND THE BANISHED series and placed them in my "looks interesting" pile. †Has anyone read them and are they worth moving to the top of the pile?

 

I'm getting ready to read THE MUCKER by E. R. Burroughs. †I have enjoyed most of the ERB books I have read and have high hopes for this one as well.

 

Here's one I just found at the back of my closet: JOHN THE BALLADEER by Manly Wade Wellman. †A collection of short stories about a "magical" travelling folksinger with a silver stringed guitar in the Carolinas. †There are novels about the character as well but the collection of short stories is the one I would recommend the most.

[lstormhammer]

Either way, I can't wait. †It's probably a good time to re-read them again and refresh them in my minds.

Yea, it's a good idea to read them before the next book comes out. A lot of stuff goes on in them. I reccomend one month for each book. Example: Start re-reading from the beginning 3 months before the next books comes out.

 

Now: On the Sci-Fi front: Your Required Reading is 'On Basilisk Station' by David Weber I can go off for hours about why this series is good, but I'll refrain. You'll like it. I've found noone I've reccomended this to dislike it. Read it, just read it.

 

--lstormhammer

[scowling]

Your Required Reading is 'On Basilisk Station' by David Weber I can go off for hours about why this series is good, but I'll refrain. You'll like it. I've found noone I've reccomended this to dislike it.

There is a tenet that the quality of a series of books decreases with the size of the series, and that the position of the book within a long series is no guarantee of quality. The first will be just as bad as the last. (Vis: the "Destroyer" novels, th Xanth novels, etc.).

 

Weber's Honor Harrington series is lame space opera/military sci-fi trash, and it epitomizes this tenet. A few years back I worked in a major chain bookstore, and On Basilisk Station was reprinted in a cheap paperback format with a sale price of $1.99. I sold hundreds of them.

 

And didn't sell a single copy of the next book in the series. Not one. The books are that bad.

[lstormhammer]

That's a bold statement, Scowling. And I respect you for saying what you feel. Now how about being constructive as well, and tell us the books /you/ like, hmm?

 

--lstormhammer

 

Addendium: Most people like going to a bookstore where they're not going to get lip from the counterstaff. Food for thought, Scowling. --lsh

[Dalyn]

Thanks, Ish.

 

I'll try to remember to give it a look.  Right now, I've got a stack on non-fiction stuff that I'm working on, but I could probably use an interlude at some point.

 

BTW, Scowling actually did recommend some books in his previous post.  (And then follow-up with some criticisms.)  

 

I'm not quite sure about that rule of longevity.  It seems that most series that go for a long time just run out of steam and the writer goes back to the well one too many times (or more often).  I thought that the first 6 Xanth books were quite good, then they started slipping a bit.  And not all game oriented books are bad.  I've seen both the original Dragonlance trilogy and R.A. Salvatore's Drizz't books recommended and I'd second both (although they are starting to slip IMO).

[scowling]

That's a bold statement, Scowling. And I respect you for saying what you feel. Now how about being constructive as well, and tell us the books /you/ like, hmm?

 

Addendium: Most people like going to a bookstore where they're not going to get lip from the counterstaff. Food for thought, Scowling. --lsh

1. I listed recommended books earlier in the thread.

 

2. I don't work in retail anymore; I have a real job.

 

3. Nothing I wrote implied that I gave lip to my customers.

 

4. That you were unable to glean the previous three bits of information from my earlier posts speaks to your reading comprehension and certainly colours any book recommendations you might make, doesn't it?. Food for thought.

[lstormhammer]

Fair enough, Scowling. I'll make reccomendations to everyone else here. Hope you don't mind.

 

--lstormhammer

[scowling]

Fair enough, Scowling. I'll make reccomendations to everyone else here. Hope you don't mind.

Of course I don't mind. However, I intend to criticise any recommendations that I disagree with. I'm not concerned if anyone minds me doing so.

[Michael-TLH]

Opinions are just that, opinions. They're like something else that everyone has... but never mind, that. :)

 

As far as that goes, you can agree or disagree... but what matters is whether YOU like the book or not. Don't be swayed by anyone else calling it "crap" or "the best ever"... read them and judge for yourself.

 

You'll find lots of people that will denounce someone's writing that they don't like... maybe because they aren't as successful... or maybe just because whatever series or book isn't their cup of tea... in the long run it's up to you, yourself... so give an author you've never read a try and see how you like it... you don't have to read it. :D

 

BTW: I earlier overlooked an author I liked, S. M. Stirling - some great "alternate history" books. :D

[Arkangel]

There are very few fantasy series that are any good. If, as Sturgeon's Law suggests, 90% of anything is crud, it is truer of fantasy novels than of anything else.

 

It wouldn't be a Scowling Post if I didn't post some criticisms:

 

1. All game-related fiction is crap. All of it, without exception. All the D&D novels, all the Clan War novels, all the Vampire novels, and every short story in every RPG sourcebook ever written: all crap. Not a single game-related story would survive two minutes in a workshop of real writers. Not a single game-related story would survive the "two page" test if the game-related content was stripped from the work and it was submitted to a mainstream publisher. Not one.

Er, aren't we forgetting something.......

 

These people are in this to make money not to win the Pulitzer prize!

 

Still,agree with most of your comments.

[scowling]

As far as that goes, you can agree or disagree... but what matters is whether YOU like the book or not. Don't be swayed by anyone else calling it "crap" or "the best ever"... read them and judge for yourself.

 

You'll find lots of people that will denounce someone's writing that they don't like... maybe because they aren't as successful... or maybe just because whatever series or book isn't their cup of tea... in the long run it's up to you, yourself... so give an author you've never read a try and see how you like it... you don't have to read it. :D

I have to disagree. There are so many books in the SF/Fantasy genre alone that nobody could possibly read them all in their lifetime. Hence, looking to a cogent criticism of a book is the best way to minimize the amount of time spent reading crap.

 

It is disingenuous to imply that many people denounce writing due to personal preferences or lack of personal success. Didja know that there are only about thirty North American SF and Fantasy writers who are able to earn a living at it? I sure as heck don't want the kind of 'success' that results in starvation. :)

 

Me, I'm denouncing some authors because they are untalented and I would rather see people buy and read quality fiction. When bad fiction sells, it encourages publishers to publish more bad fiction.

 

Then again, I sold books for a living for ten years, have a degree in Writing and have written book reviews professionally, so what do I know?

[gwangi32]

2. I don't work in retail anymore; I have a real job.

 

3. Nothing I wrote implied that I gave lip to my customers.

 

While not a direct statement, the tone of your posts is so superior to the opinions expressed by others you imply negativity in your dealings as a book seller. †Seems that way to me. †Just a feeling.

 

Be that as it may, the topic has been spiced up and I want to disagree with the statement on cogent criticism. †There is a difference between opinion and feeling that was brought to my attention in similarly spirited debate. †That difference is knowledge. †If a person has knowledge of a subject, then they can have an opinion. †If they don't have knowledge, then they have a feeling. †It is easy to step between these points of view. †A cogent critic must have knowledge of the subject. †And can speak to the quality of literature. †This seems to discribe you Scowling.

 

But, I don't fool myself. †I don't read fantasy literature. †I only have a feeling on that subject...George MacDonald, Beowulf and the Saga of Sigurd. †What is worthy, what is great and what is not? †

 

I have an opinion on what I like to read. †I like to read entertaining fantasy fiction. †That's the bottom line. †I like the Menzoberranzan Books, the Icewind Dale Books and other rpg fiction because it is enjoyable reading. †I also enjoyed the first three books of the Guardians of the Flame. †I enjoy reading. †If I were to only read "good" books which were chosen by critics I'd end up reading a very limited list of titles with few, if any, of my favorites on it. †I would stop enjoying reading.

[scowling]

Someone by definition must be superior, so it might as well be me. :)