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Glitterwolf

Deus Vult! Militi Christi Bust by Glitterwolf

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A heavy wash on the cape.

Re-basecoated the cross so I can make a good woodwork later.

 

 

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The cross on the robes is bothering me.

I know the real thing was crude, stitched on their robes, and it has wrinkles and all of course.

 

But does it look alright to you?

There is something wrong about it, any tips?

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I actually like the cross, maybe a touch of color or maybe some gold wire holding it together?

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5 hours ago, Glitterwolf said:

The cross on the robes is bothering me.

I know the real thing was crude, stitched on their robes, and it has wrinkles and all of course.

 

But does it look alright to you?

There is something wrong about it, any tips?

 

I think for me the orangey brown of the cross is a little too close to the red of the robe, so it's getting washed out. Maybe if it was colored with a more cool toned color, or a darker or lighter color, it would pop more

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29 minutes ago, Fire_Eyes said:

 

I think for me the orangey brown of the cross is a little too close to the red of the robe, so it's getting washed out. Maybe if it was colored with a more cool toned color, or a darker or lighter color, it would pop more

I like that suggestion!

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Reaper's grey brown triad works well for wood, maybe look at a swatch online and see if you have (or can mix) a similar color.  Shifting out of an orange brown should help, if you don't want it to look grey you could try for a pale Scandinavian style wood.  

 

Additionally, you don't have to have both crosses match.  The smaller one could be made of metal.  

 

EDIT:. Since re-reading your post confirms what I first thought you were asking, I don't think I have any suggestions about the cloth without looking up a reference photo.  Maybe if you add some texture it will seem better.  

Edited by LittleBluberry
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Looks good! You've done some nice work on his face so far.

 

As for the cross on his surcoat, I see two issues you might spend time on:

1. The surcoat is nicely shabby, with some dark shadows/grunge, but the cross is very clean and stark white.

2. The shape of the Cross seems off.

 

 

1. I think this can be fixed by using a more yellow white such as Linen White, or better yet a bone color, to shade the folds in the fabric. You could get a little crazy and use a faded orange, as though the surcoat got wet and the red dye of the main coat wasn't colorfast and bleed into the white fabric of the Cross, but that would take a very deft hand (and I think I'd probably end up repainting it several times, so it might be more frustration than it's worth).

 

2. The bars of your cross don't look symmetrical. The Maltese Cross associated with the Hospitallers is basically four symmetrical arrows arrayed equally around a single point. You have a kind of dagged rectangle, flanked by two lobes. Here's a quick sketch of a Maltese Cross and what I see on your Knight:

IMG_20190513_132604991.thumb.jpg.64148dbdfb612ed8a7948d8617e33b52.jpg

(... Of course the images is sideways. The dotted line is the bottom, where the bust cuts off)

I think you can probably go back in with the red and clean up the cross shape without too much trouble.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

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18 hours ago, Corsair said:

I actually like the cross, maybe a touch of color or maybe some gold wire holding it together?

 

18 hours ago, Fire_Eyes said:

 

I think for me the orangey brown of the cross is a little too close to the red of the robe, so it's getting washed out. Maybe if it was colored with a more cool toned color, or a darker or lighter color, it would pop more

 

17 hours ago, LittleBluberry said:

Reaper's grey brown triad works well for wood, maybe look at a swatch online and see if you have (or can mix) a similar color.  Shifting out of an orange brown should help, if you don't want it to look grey you could try for a pale Scandinavian style wood.  

 

Additionally, you don't have to have both crosses match.  The smaller one could be made of metal.  

 

EDIT:. Since re-reading your post confirms what I first thought you were asking, I don't think I have any suggestions about the cloth without looking up a reference photo.  Maybe if you add some texture it will seem better.  

 

15 hours ago, Sanael said:

Looks good! You've done some nice work on his face so far.

 

As for the cross on his surcoat, I see two issues you might spend time on:

1. The surcoat is nicely shabby, with some dark shadows/grunge, but the cross is very clean and stark white.

2. The shape of the Cross seems off.

 

 

1. I think this can be fixed by using a more yellow white such as Linen White, or better yet a bone color, to shade the folds in the fabric. You could get a little crazy and use a faded orange, as though the surcoat got wet and the red dye of the main coat wasn't colorfast and bleed into the white fabric of the Cross, but that would take a very deft hand (and I think I'd probably end up repainting it several times, so it might be more frustration than it's worth).

 

2. The bars of your cross don't look symmetrical. The Maltese Cross associated with the Hospitallers is basically four symmetrical arrows arrayed equally around a single point. You have a kind of dagged rectangle, flanked by two lobes. Here's a quick sketch of a Maltese Cross and what I see on your Knight:

 

(... Of course the images is sideways. The dotted line is the bottom, where the bust cuts off)

I think you can probably go back in with the red and clean up the cross shape without too much trouble.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

 

 

Thanks all!

I was talking about the White Cross on the Surcoat.

 

The wooden one isn't finished yet and will get more colour soon.

 

It is supposed to be the Maltese Cross, and they wore it as a plain white cross on their surcoat.

It's the symmetrical thing that bothered me.

 

I was thinking to redo it like this painter has done ( the shape of the cross )

Would that be more realistic?

 

image.png.e6d32a365a2ae49c71d94a4bc2e72e26.png

Edited by Glitterwolf
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1 hour ago, Glitterwolf said:

 

 

I was thinking to redo it like this painter has done ( the shape of the cross )

Would that be more realistic?

...yes, and no.

 

1. The shape of the Cross is fine on our Knight of Malta (white cross on black field) friend. But there are a few things to be careful of, if you're following that example.

2. The Cross on the Knight of Malta is, I think, far too large. All we can see is the top arm of the Cross, and that arm isn't entirely visible to us. As the Maltese Cross is equilateral, the size of the top arm which we can see means the bottom arm would be tucked well into this fellow's belt, and the side arms would come very close to the edges of the surcoat, if not overlap them completely. This would not be a likely way to wear one's uniform. I think the size of your already-painted cross is probably pretty good, so just paint over it rather than repainting.

3. The end of the Cross on the KoM example lacks the indentation that makes the Maltese Cross so distinctive. It's nicely painted, but the fact that it's just a flat-sided triangle is a little boring. All it would take would be to paint the white triangle, then go back in with the black (or red in your case) and make another triangle at the top of the white. Two simple triangles in different colors, et voila! A much more interesting, more accurate Maltese Cross.

 

I feel as though I might not be making sense, entirely. At some point today, I'll see if I can sketch out an example of what I mean to make it more clear.

 

I'll also mention that a lot of what I said above about the Cross being equilateral, always having indentations, etc. is... Ideal from a graphical sense, but not necessarily realistic. We are talking about men who were mustered from all walks of life and generally made their own uniforms (or had them made). So "uniformity" was, um...a bit of a misnomer. The colors would be roughly the same (though dye quality would have varied, so one man's red might be quite different from another's, especially after a week in rain or sun). Which is to say, you may WANT some non-standard stuff.

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2 minutes ago, Sanael said:

...yes, and no.

 

1. The shape of the Cross is fine on our Knight of Malta (white cross on black field) friend. But there are a few things to be careful of, if you're following that example.

2. The Cross on the Knight of Malta is, I think, far too large. All we can see is the top arm of the Cross, and that arm isn't entirely visible to us. As the Maltese Cross is equilateral, the size of the top arm which we can see means the bottom arm would be tucked well into this fellow's belt, and the side arms would come very close to the edges of the surcoat, if not overlap them completely. This would not be a likely way to wear one's uniform. I think the size of your already-painted cross is probably pretty good, so just paint over it rather than repainting.

3. The end of the Cross on the KoM example lacks the indentation that makes the Maltese Cross so distinctive. It's nicely painted, but the fact that it's just a flat-sided triangle is a little boring. All it would take would be to paint the white triangle, then go back in with the black (or red in your case) and make another triangle at the top of the white. Two simple triangles in different colors, et voila! A much more interesting, more accurate Maltese Cross.

 

I feel as though I might not be making sense, entirely. At some point today, I'll see if I can sketch out an example of what I mean to make it more clear.

 

I'll also mention that a lot of what I said above about the Cross being equilateral, always having indentations, etc. is... Ideal from a graphical sense, but not necessarily realistic. We are talking about men who were mustered from all walks of life and generally made their own uniforms (or had them made). So "uniformity" was, um...a bit of a misnomer. The colors would be roughly the same (though dye quality would have varied, so one man's red might be quite different from another's, especially after a week in rain or sun). Which is to say, you may WANT some non-standard stuff.

 

Thx,

I would appreciate it!

 

 

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Ok, so here's what I put together between projects at work. All credit to Derek Schubert and Jess Rich for my freehand techniques.

 

Assuming you start over with a "blank" field (in your case, the whole surcoat starts as red), here's how I would make the Cross (my drawings are in anticlockwise order, I don't know why, but that's what I did):

IMG_20190514_081133296.thumb.jpg.9c46c091e356a8319d581a3e0102fcfe.jpg

1. The main cross is just two elongated "x" figures with a common center point and closed ends. Determine your center (in my sketch it's just above the line where the bust cuts off), then draw (with white, in your case) the outline of the Cross by making four lines that intersect at that center (I put in dotted lines to show how this shape would extend past the bottom of the bust). You'll notice this center point means you have a tiny part of the lower bar of the Cross showing: compositionally, this supports the idea that the Knight's lower half exists even though the sculpt doesn't show it. Close the ends and fill in the Cross.

2. At the center of each bar of the Cross, a short distance from the end, make a reference dot with the color of your background (red).

3. In red, draw in the lines from the corners of the Cross to your reference dots.

4. Fill in the triangles at the ends of the Cross with red.

 

Once you've done that, your cross should be pretty proportional. You can then go in and add shading. My earlier post mentioned several options for shading the Cross; I think I'd probably go with some Ivory/bone colors to get an appropriately dingy look.

 

Hopefully this is clear, let me know if it's not!

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1 hour ago, Sanael said:

Ok, so here's what I put together between projects at work. All credit to Derek Schubert and Jess Rich for my freehand techniques.

 

Assuming you start over with a "blank" field (in your case, the whole surcoat starts as red), here's how I would make the Cross (my drawings are in anticlockwise order, I don't know why, but that's what I did):

IMG_20190514_081133296.thumb.jpg.9c46c091e356a8319d581a3e0102fcfe.jpg

1. The main cross is just two elongated "x" figures with a common center point and closed ends. Determine your center (in my sketch it's just above the line where the bust cuts off), then draw (with white, in your case) the outline of the Cross by making four lines that intersect at that center (I put in dotted lines to show how this shape would extend past the bottom of the bust). You'll notice this center point means you have a tiny part of the lower bar of the Cross showing: compositionally, this supports the idea that the Knight's lower half exists even though the sculpt doesn't show it. Close the ends and fill in the Cross.

2. At the center of each bar of the Cross, a short distance from the end, make a reference dot with the color of your background (red).

3. In red, draw in the lines from the corners of the Cross to your reference dots.

4. Fill in the triangles at the ends of the Cross with red.

 

Once you've done that, your cross should be pretty proportional. You can then go in and add shading. My earlier post mentioned several options for shading the Cross; I think I'd probably go with some Ivory/bone colors to get an appropriately dingy look.

 

Hopefully this is clear, let me know if it's not!

 

Thank you!

 

One of the little problems is the other crosses he wears, they interfere with the lines.

So I need to figure out how to place this exactly.

 

It does make sense!

I need it to be less "fat" I will practice a bit on paper first.

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7 hours ago, Sanael said:

...yes, and no.

 

1. The shape of the Cross is fine on our Knight of Malta (white cross on black field) friend. But there are a few things to be careful of, if you're following that example.

2. The Cross on the Knight of Malta is, I think, far too large. All we can see is the top arm of the Cross, and that arm isn't entirely visible to us. As the Maltese Cross is equilateral, the size of the top arm which we can see means the bottom arm would be tucked well into this fellow's belt, and the side arms would come very close to the edges of the surcoat, if not overlap them completely. This would not be a likely way to wear one's uniform. I think the size of your already-painted cross is probably pretty good, so just paint over it rather than repainting.

3. The end of the Cross on the KoM example lacks the indentation that makes the Maltese Cross so distinctive. It's nicely painted, but the fact that it's just a flat-sided triangle is a little boring. All it would take would be to paint the white triangle, then go back in with the black (or red in your case) and make another triangle at the top of the white. Two simple triangles in different colors, et voila! A much more interesting, more accurate Maltese Cross.

 

I feel as though I might not be making sense, entirely. At some point today, I'll see if I can sketch out an example of what I mean to make it more clear.

 

I'll also mention that a lot of what I said above about the Cross being equilateral, always having indentations, etc. is... Ideal from a graphical sense, but not necessarily realistic. We are talking about men who were mustered from all walks of life and generally made their own uniforms (or had them made). So "uniformity" was, um...a bit of a misnomer. The colors would be roughly the same (though dye quality would have varied, so one man's red might be quite different from another's, especially after a week in rain or sun). Which is to say, you may WANT some non-standard stuff.

 

There can be quite a lot of artistic variation in heraldic work. This happens both over time and between artists at the same time.

 

But:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_cross

 

Note that the form of the cross in the artwork seems to be consistent from at least the fifteenth century.

 

ETA: The size of the cross seems to change with time, though, from as large as will fit on a tunic or tabard to a bit larger than the size of a spread hand.

Edited by Doug Sundseth
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