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buglips*the*goblin

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Some experiments:  

I had Army Painter Sand Yellow and some Krylon Camo Sand primer.   Over these I put a few shades of Polyshades and AP washes.  Finally I tried some GW Contrast Paint.

 

Chinese_Test_1.thumb.jpg.6feedec0423df0a0a5fabaaee26e4a7d.jpg

 

Front row second from the left is Contrast Paint (over Nuln gloss over the Krylon).  Third from left is Strong Tone over the AP primer.  I think those are what I'm going for due to the "mustard" color and higher contrast than what the Polyshades gives.

 

In any case I've now primered a bunch of guys.

 

 

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I bought the Armies of the United States book so I could recalculate my forces, and expected the German force recalculated to their guide to come out over the point total.  Instead the US list is 200+ points over.  I may have to look up some errata to find out why the point totals from different sources vary so wildly.  The germans already have 2 veteran panthers, 2 veteran puma, and a veteran 251/10 plus a pak 40, plus everyone has a pile of panzerfaust.  The US has 4 regular M4A3, 1 Regular M4A1 76, an M8 greyhound, a 57mm at gun, and the rangers only have gammon bombs.  The german force seems more than a match for the american tanks as it is, but the point tots allow me to give them an additional Regular Stug III!  

 

edit:  I could also drop one sherman instead of adding the StuG III.  In either case, I'd expect the americans to have a bad day.

 

Something not right there.  

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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So the errata didn't yield any useful info.  The age order of the books is:  US Forces, 2nd Edition Rulebook, 2nd Edition German Forces.  So I could treat subsequent point variances as superceding older values.  But, since I'm not packing my stuff up to go play at a store, I think I'm going to playtest some force combinations and use my own judgement on what constitutes a fair fight.  It's just supposed to be a friendly sort of thing, and while I'm working out two even armies I'll just rely on the house rule that my opponent gets first choice of armies.  If I haven't done a good job of making things balanced, it'll be me it works against.  

 

This does mean I have to repaint my ugly StuG (StuGly?) to fix it up, though.    

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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My club is planning a Renaissance tank game extravaganza next year; I ended up buying a handful of Warlord landsknecht sprues in their recent sale, so we’ll see whether putting multipart plastics together works for me this time...

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@buglips*the*goblin, Are you using EasyArmy?  That would at least ensure you were getting all the right point values, etc.    Also, I'd guess that the points are even less accurate for a tank battle than they are in the usual infantry with one tank in support lists.

 

I've got a bunch of Warlord's desert war sprues and am thinking of something like the following to get them on the table.  Any thoughts on improvements I could make.  I''ll probably go with my usual "Nuln Oil Gloss" before doing the contrast paints an I'm thinking that thinning down the green might make the German jackets look more faded.  Also I doubt I''ll use contrast on anything but the uniforms. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjEebmQ8HCg

 

 

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11 hours ago, lowlylowlycook said:

Are you using EasyArmy?  That would at least ensure you were getting all the right point values, etc.

 

No, I was not - but thank you very much, because that is a very useful tool.  These are atypical lists (the germans, for example, have two Puma armoured cars and the basic lists only allow for one) so it won't just let me plug everything in, but it does at least give me some consistent numbers to work with.  

 

I wound up in this spot because I wound up with atypical miniatures because I got into the game in an atypical way.  I probably wouldn't have got into historicals except that my house burned down and I was very bored while displaced.  That got me to looking at the Bolt Action stuff, and then I went to Reapercon 2018.  I was keeping an eye out for some Warlord stuff, and then Mario at Frontline hooked me up with some - but at that point I hadn't even seen the rulebook, so I wound up buying just a random mash of things that looked cool.  

 

Being that I was going to Reapercon again this year, and that Warlord would have a presence there, I decided to look at what I had, try to compile some sort of list from them, and then figure out what else to add to fill in gaps (the objective being to buy as little new stuff as possible).  This was more a shopping list than an army list, so I was more focused on what miniatures would be needed for purchase.  I also hadn't bothered to record what units were veteran and what were not when I made that list, which was pretty dumb and now something I also have to work out in reverse (it appears, playing with the easyarmy calculator, that my original idea was for Regular panthers and not Veterans).  

 

In any case, the german points are certainly now much more in line with my expectations (i.e. - they cost more than Americans) and this will let me extract values to firm up this organization.  All of this is really just so that I have two lists to complete and at least try out the rules.  Being that once something is completed it remains completed, additional (even typical) lists can be built thereafter using the finished components.  I've been a year picking at this stuff now, and have yet to roll a single dice.  

 

But in any case, it looks probable the german list will NOT get the extra StuG, so at least for now that's one less thing to immediately paint up.  That leaves 3 shermans, a 57mm AT gun, and a horde of US/German infantry.  Mid-late November I might actually be ready.  

 

Anyway, thanks again for the suggestion!  Having consistent point values simplifies quite a lot for me.  

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Probably not so helpful for @buglips*the*goblin now, but a few weeks ago Uncle Atom of Tabletop Minions had a video on how to set up an army list. Here's my response:

 

 
Quote

 

First, miniatures are just markers. They're pretty markers that I've spent way too much money on, but they're just markers. It's entirely possible to play any game with much simpler markers (say bases with labels of what might eventually be on them). With that, a simple, practical way to build an army:
  1. Pick an army that seems fun for whatever reason.
  2. Build a list without worrying too much about it and make up proxy markers for the army.
  3. Play a game with that proxied army. If your friends tell you that's not legal, find new friends.
  4. If you still like the army after you have played it a few times, start buying models. If not, start over with a new army.
  5. Buy only the figures every list for that army needs and start painting them. If you're not an accomplished painter, paint the rank and file first, because they're not what people pick up to stare at anyway. By the time that you get to the leaders, you'll be a better painter.
  6. Play more games, using your painted figures and markers for whatever else. Each game, tweak the units you're using and find out how to set up the army to work with the way your brain works.
  7. As you play, you'll figure out what you really need for your version of the army. Buy the stuff you know you want and paint it too.
  8. Iterate until the army is fully painted.
  9. Start over with a new army. (Not required, but realistically, .... :B): )

 

 

I'll add that the same sort of thing can be useful when you're trying out a new rules set. But in that case, you can use whatever you've painted for the same period as prettier proxies (possibly with sabot* bases, if the new set has different basing standards).

 

* Sabot base: A base of the correct size for the rules on which you place miniatures based differently. That placement isn't typically permanent. FWIW, this is another place where using magnetic bases can be very useful, as then you can just use a metal sabot and stick the minis down.

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I was actually thinking about that very video (or a recent one very similar) while writing out how the atypical list formed.  He suggested rules first, models second but I came into it the other way around.  Of course, initially I was less interested in the game than I was in acquiring some neat miniature projects - so while it was an illogical way to get into the game, for the circumstances it made sense at the time.

 

As both lists look to be ~2000 points each, that should provide plenty of options to carve 1000 point armies from, should I wish to take them "on the road"  With the added benefit of giving me either an allied list or an axis list to choose from depending on what the opponent brings. 

 

So while I did it the stupid way, it was at least a usefully stupid way.

 

edit:  I should also add that the additional time to get the forces ready before playtesting was not really an issue, since I am still waiting for my table anyway.  I do not technically actually yet have a table of any sort, just a workbench and a tv stand, so I had nothing to proxy play upon anyway.  Unless I wanted to crawl about on the floor, anyway, and I'm not sure my creaky knees would be up to that.

Edited by buglips*the*goblin
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Okay, so using these numbers I got:

 

US Rangers:

 

HQ - Vet 1st Lt, +2 Veteran assistants = 116 points

3 x 10-man Ranger Squad w/ NCO smg; BAR; AT grenades for all = 168 pts ea; 504 for the lot

Veteran sniper team = 67 points

Veteran bazooka team = 78 points

Regular M8 Greyhound + pintle HMG = 135 points

Regular 57mm AT M1 = 75 points

Regular Dodge 3/4 ton Beep, no armament = 31 points (this is just to lug the 57mm about)

4 x Regular M4 Sherman (i.e., the base entry) + pintle HMG for all = 210 points ea;  840 total

M4A1 76mm + pintle HMG = 260 points

Comes to:  2106 points

 

Germans:

 

HQ - Veteran 1st Lt, + 2 Vet assistants = 116 points

2 x 10-man Veteran Grenadier squad w/ NCO smg; lmg + loader; 4 pzfaust = 173 pts ea, 346 total

10-man Veteran Grenadier squad w/ NCO smg; 9 x StG assault rifles; 4 pzfaust = 198 points

Veteran sniper team = + 65 points 

Veteran Pak 40 AT gun = 132 points

Veteran 251/10 halftrack w/ rear mg = 184 points

2x Regular Panther a w/ pintle mmg = 370 ea;  740 total

2 x Regular 234/2 Puma = 160 ea; 320 total 

Comes to:  2101 points

 

So that's close, and I think I can give the StG NCO an StG for himself to make it 2103 points.  I gave him an smg for ease of recognition, but I'll find another way since it seems odd to leave him hanging.

 

So that's an atypical point total for my atypical forces, but at least now they match up pointswise.    @lowlylowlycook, that was a damn fine website suggestion, and it really helped me out with my dilemma.  Can't thank you enough!  

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, EasyArmy is nice.  I might even play 40K if they let him make a list builder.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that on top of being extremely powerful, the Tiger Fear rule that the the Panthers get can bog the game down a bit you might want to try playing both with it and without it to see what you think works best.

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3 hours ago, SisterMaryNapalm said:

I absolutely did not follow this thread for a long time. @lowlylowlycook - is the PLA force plastic or metal?

 

I was hoping for plastic but then again that was asking for a lot given lack of even metal figures.  So yeah, they are metal.

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On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 6:43 AM, Rob Dean said:

My club is planning a Renaissance tank game extravaganza next year; I ended up buying a handful of Warlord landsknecht sprues in their recent sale, so we’ll see whether putting multipart plastics together works for me this time...

 

I hated it at first, but now that I've done about 100 it's not so bad.  

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