Brush Questions

[Cyradis]

It is enough cost to worry about if the mangle a lot of my favorite brushes  There is also the hassle of having to go get new brushes. Ugh. Hassle. 

[Doug Sundseth]

Just now, Cyradis said:

It is enough cost to worry about if the mangle a lot of my favorite brushes  There is also the hassle of having to go get new brushes. Ugh. Hassle. 

 

Hence my stance of, "Get your own. But get the good ones." 

 

Except for Cheryl, of course.

[Zink]

Above I'd complained about paint drying on my brush when doing tiny details. For years I've been using a Vallejo 2/0 and 5/0 kolinsky sable for detail work and it was frustrating. I also had some other cheaper small brushes but they tended to be worse. When pawing through my supplies I found some other brushes I'd bought, packed away and forgot about. Last night I wanted to do some very fine freehand work on a shield and I had those brushes sitting nearby. 90% of my painting is done with a 1 and sometimes a 0 or 2. I had a Zen 0 round (I think) that looked to have a really nice tip. I figured I'd use it on the base work of my design and then switch to my Vallejo. I instantly fell in love with that brush. It's not an expensive brush and I believe synthetic but it was so easy to paint with. It had a decent length, full body that went to a very fine tip. The paint wasn't drying instantly on my brush. It worked better for doing eyes than my 5/0 and 10/0 from other companies. Did the work I wanted and didn't bother switching to the smaller brush to accomplish it.

 

I will state that I haven't used Windsor and Newton or Rosemary and Co that seem to be a lot of people's top choices. I'm not the best at taking care of my brushes and have kids that are worse so I've stayed away from expensive brushes. But it was a graphic example of how a better brush can help a lot. 

[Cyradis]

13 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

Hence my stance of, "Get your own. But get the good ones." 

 

Except for Cheryl, of course.

 

Yes, but she's trusted with the brushes. 

[Doug Sundseth]

20 minutes ago, Zink said:

I will state that I haven't used Windsor and Newton or Rosemary and Co that seem to be a lot of people's top choices. I'm not the best at taking care of my brushes and have kids that are worse so I've stayed away from expensive brushes. But it was a graphic example of how a better brush can help a lot. 

 

Let me see if I can translate into farmer-ese ():

 

You know how you can use the heck out of a good hammer and mistreat it and ignore it and it just works? While a cheap hammer works just fine the first week, then the head gets loose and the edge of the face chips and the varnish starts to wear off the haft?

 

A good brush is like a good hammer. It works even when you mistreat it, but it's your best friend* when you treat it right.

 

* For an idiosyncratic definition of "best friend", to be fair. 

[Venun]

On 4/20/2019 at 8:10 PM, Heisler said:

Good tools are important, brushes are the tools of our hobby. Don’t waste your time on cheap brushes, although cheap brushes do have their uses. Invest in a 0 and a #1 kolinsky sable brush for your detail work and save a lot of frustration.

 

Mind if I ask further on about this? Which brand would the Kolinsky Sable be from? I'm looking around atm (I think I'm ready to upgrade brushes atm) and I find Raphael's, but also Winsor & Newton?

What would be prefered or adviced?

[Gadgetman!]

No manufacturer have only Kolinsky brushes, or exclusive access to that type of fur. 

 

For Raphael it's series 8404 or 8408 which are considered the 'right ones' for miniature painting.

For W&N it's their Series 7.

For Rosemary & Co it's Series 33. 

(R&Co mostly sell in their own online store, but I know they're available in a few miniature-related stores elsewhere also)

I have tried Raphael, W&N and some others before I settled on R&Co. Which one to pick is pretty much up to personal preference.   

 

Some companies have aditional different handles on the brushes.(triangular for a different grip), so don't just stare blindly at the suggested series.   

 

Also, not all painting is done with a 'pointed, round'. There are flats, filberts(great for large areas) and so on. 

And those doesn't usually need to be Kolinsky sable. 

 

Kolinsky Sable is preferred because it holds a point extremely well, which is essential for detail work.  

(A cheap nylon can also hold a point, just not for as long as a good Kolinsky)   

 

You can get brushes as small as 30/0, but they're no pointier than a good #0 or even a #1 from a good brand. 

And the paint won't dry immediately on a larger brush.   

 

[Venun]

I think I'll get the W&N for now. They're available for a good price around me atm, and I like the length of the hairs. I usually brush with far shorter haired brushes if i'm not washing the figure.

Thanks for your advice Gadgetman :) 

 

[Cygnwulf]

Remembered something today.  When talking Series 7, it's important to note that there are W&N Series 7 brushes, and there are W&N series 7 Miniature brushes.  the Miniature brushes have shorter bristles than the regular series 7.  I myself tend to prefer longer bristles (I even use some liners instead of rounds) because it is harder to overload the brush and get paint in the ferrule, and I find that they take a point easier and hold a point longer than the short bristles.

But I know some folks prefer the short bristles because they're firmer and some people find them easier to control, so again there's that try both.  I just want to make sure people know that there is a difference even within the series 7 brushes.

[Doug Sundseth]

4 hours ago, Gadgetman! said:

For Raphael it's series 8404 or 8408 which are considered the 'right ones' for miniature painting.

For W&N it's their Series 7.

For Rosemary & Co it's Series 33. 

 

I'll also mention da Vinci Series 10.

 

I haven't tried the R&C brushes, but they often get good comments. I have tried all the others and like all of them.

[Gadgetman!]

11 minutes ago, Doug Sundseth said:

 

I'll also mention da Vinci Series 10.

 

I haven't tried the R&C brushes, but they often get good comments. I have tried all the others and like all of them.

 

That was the name of the 4th 'good name' company I tried. 

 

W&N have their 'miniature' brushes.

Raphael have the 8404 and 8408, where the '4' have short and the '8' have long bristles. 

 

Always follow the Commandments, though.

 

http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/73906-77051-orc-stalker-second-ever-paint-job/&page=2#comment-1532818

(but ignore #3 for now. It seems that one wasn't quite correct)   

 

[Doug Sundseth]

4 minutes ago, Gadgetman! said:

Always follow the Commandments, though.

 

http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/73906-77051-orc-stalker-second-ever-paint-job/&page=2#comment-1532818

(but ignore #3 for now. It seems that one wasn't quite correct)   

 

Good suggestions. I'll mention that if you do use regular detergents on brushes*, you should probably use a hair conditioner afterwards. Detergents remove both grime and oils, but some oils are necessary to hair maintenance. And hair conditioners can put those back in.

 

* Or a really aggressive product like the W&N Brush Cleaner & Restorer, which has much the same effect.

[SparrowMarie]

9 hours ago, Venun said:

 

Mind if I ask further on about this? Which brand would the Kolinsky Sable be from? I'm looking around atm (I think I'm ready to upgrade brushes atm) and I find Raphael's, but also Winsor & Newton?

What would be prefered or adviced?

 

Rosemary and Co. are also very nice and generally much cheaper. I use mainly the series 33 rounds, mostly 0s, and the eclipse synthetics.

[Al Capwn]

Hey, I am back from my hiatus as well! Only took a few months to be sidetracked building and finishing a table, so I should be back on the forums being a productive member of society again...hopefully. I've been busy 3D printing and painting up Gloomhaven terrain with a new resin printer as well, but didn't bother taking pictures during that time.

 

My advice is to save your nice brushes for when you need them. Cheap brushes can generally apply basecoats and roughing in of colors just as easily as an expensive one. Where the natural bristles shine is in how they handle thinner paints and keeping/holding a fine point. Each brush stroke you use on your $1.00 brush is one brush stroke you save on your $15-$20 brush's life.

 

Also, welcome back!

Edited May 3, 2019 by Al Capwn

[ced1106]

On 5/3/2019 at 10:44 AM, Al Capwn said:

Cheap brushes can generally apply basecoats and roughing in of colors just as easily as an expensive one.

 

Yep, that. I've ruined $45+ of expensive hobby brushes when I first painted because I didn't learn proper brush care. I still get paint deep into the ferrule.

 

IMO, If you're painting for gaming, have 20+ miniatures to paint, and are fine with tabletop or advanced tabletop, you can use the cheap brushes for the primer, basecoats, and washes. It's unlikely you'll have time for highlights, blending, etc. which is what I'll use the expensive hobby brush for. I found some cheap HAPPY ONE (yeah, that's what it's called) synthetic brushes and they work fine, as does a pack of inexpensive natural hair brushes from the arts and crafts stores. I originally bought the HAPPY ONE brushes for metallic paint (known to ruin brushes) but started using them for finer detail. Natural hair is fine for washes.

 

Also, for painting quickly, I recommend colored brush-on primers followed by washes, but that's another article.